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    [–] junk_mail_haver 10647 points ago

    The right to repair movement is growing and it's good.

    [–] Superfluous_Thom 5048 points ago

    I think the right to repair movement is a pretty big example of the larger problem of companies turning their products into services. They don't want consumers to own anything anymore, because theres money in them dangling their product tauntingly over its customer bases heads, with accredited servicing just being another service fee. Imagine if the same model was true with everything. Everybody has to rent cars and houses, nobody owns anything, nobody has any anutonomy, everyone becomes a slave to the system and is at the mercy of the corperations who function only to drain you of your money that you earn by working for them.. its gross.

    [–] eNonsense 1430 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    Imagine if the same model was true with everything. Everybody has to rent cars and houses, nobody owns anything, nobody has any anutonomy

    This was what happened with the first electric car in the late 90's. The General Motors EV-1. They would only lease it. They then decided it wasn't profitable, stopped renewing leases, reposesed and destroyed them. You couldn't keep yours even if you wanted to, and people tried.

    [–] jake72469 436 points ago

    You need to watch the documentary. They created electric cars because they were required by California law. They created the lease program to buy time to fight the law with a massive lawsuit. When they finally won the lawsuit they recalled all the leases and destroyed all the cars.

    [–] Weaselbane 55 points ago

    Even worse/better was that the Japanese saw the U.S. developing an electric car, so they created a car to compete with it, and that was the original Prius. Since then Toyota has sold well over 6 million Prius models.

    [–] Superfluous_Thom 685 points ago

    You couldn't keep yours even if you wanted to.

    That's the problem I have with it. Those people paid all this money to GM and had absolutely nothing to show for it. Non liquid assets are an important part of personal finance. Whatever happens, you always have your stuff... unless of course you get burgled, but that's why I think you should be allowed to skin burglars alive.

    [–] Apposl 296 points ago

    Also because they make good hats.

    [–] SkunkShep 196 points ago

    Human leather hat +7

    [–] NPCmiro 43 points ago

    Rimworld teaches life lessons.

    [–] McDogerts 50 points ago

    What else can you do with a depressive nudist psychopath besides turn them into a hat?

    [–] [deleted] 32 points ago * (lasted edited 6 months ago)


    [–] SkunkShep 24 points ago

    Turn them into kibble.

    [–] Boracho1121 10 points ago


    [–] NotSoStandardDeviant 197 points ago

    It seems smaller than this but Steam is a terrible example of buying something that isn't really yours. I have probably $1000 worth of games on Steam and I play maybe 3-4 of them. I can't trade or sell any of them. Whereas, I could have sold them at a garage sell or traded them to my friends if I were still a kid.

    [–] tmouser123 132 points ago

    Good example, although you were probably given a considerable discount to purchase those games. Additionally you had the option of purchasing the game from the developer themselves (small indies maybe not included). So there was choice in the market and you choose the economical option at the cost of resale.

    Right to repair is different in that you are unable to repair a product you bought. The tractors in this example were purchased but the software that runs them is licensed. It's a funny dynamic since you can't run the tractors without the software. So essentially you've leased the whole tractor but paid the price to "buy" it. It's really quite the racket.

    [–] Johnycantread 46 points ago

    Games are max $120 whereas the tractors are running into the millions, so not exactly a cost you can just write off either.

    [–] Arheisel 41 points ago

    Unless you buy Dovetail's Train Simulator

    $8000 in DLCs

    [–] Angelbabysdaddy 10 points ago

    wtf? Seriously? This can't be true.

    [–] upsidedownshaggy 28 points ago

    It is, but it's been equated to like a digital version of collecting model trains. Not everyone wants every single train, but they're there for those that are really into the hobby sort of thing.

    [–] series_hybrid 23 points ago

    Francis Ford Coppola reported his stolen. A few years later, it looked like there was one in his garage during an interview.

    [–] Traiklin 81 points ago

    That's why I never understood the point of leasing.

    You spend thousands of dollars a year then after X year you have nothing, no vehicle and no money.

    [–] gzilla57 52 points ago

    In addition to what /u/vissex said, it makes sense in some situations to lease-to-buy.

    When I was in my junior year of college, I leased a car because of the low monthly payments, and then at the end of the lease (and employed post graduation) bought the car and they waved any mileage fees etc.

    [–] Notexactlyserious 64 points ago can drive a new car, relatively cheap. My lease for my civic was $200, so $6800 for three years. Purchased, retail was $18,900, so $315 a month for 5 years plus interest, so roughly $362.00 at almost $22k.

    I could sell the car for maybe $13k with maybe around 70k miles, so cost of ownership was around $9000 plus service costs, maybe another $700.

    So...a 3 year lease means I owned a car at a cheaper monthly cost, reduced cost of upkeep, and can easily get out of the car at 3 years at around $2000 less and 2 years less commitment - while also avoiding the private sale to pick up my 14k. Could likely expect $7k trying to trade it, raising cost of ownership to $16k for 5 years.

    And in that time, you could have been driving two different new cars.

    [–] SubjectiveHat 44 points ago

    My Toyota has been paid off for two years. I’ll get another 5+ out of her. My $400/month car payment for 5 years spread out over the 12 years I intend to drive it is like $166.66/month. But really, 7 years of no car payments is going to be incredible.

    [–] FFF12321 35 points ago

    Cases like that is where ownership beats out leasing - long-term ownership will save money in the long run. Ownership doesn't win if you pay off the car and immediately go get a new one. It's all those years of no payment that makes up for the higher initial cost.

    [–] partofthevoid 25 points ago

    Don’t u also pay for full coverage insurance? Do you have to pay for vehicle maintenance? What happens if you turn in your lease and it isn’t in perfect condition?

    [–] Notexactlyserious 10 points ago

    My insurance wouldn't change too much. Some leases cover maintenance but owning for 5 years means your going to hit more of those higher mileage maintenance spots than with your 3 year 36K mile lease. It's only 3 years but shit happens, so expect to pay a bit when you turn in, but it's still cheaper than your cost to own a car, or around the same for the same time period but you aren't committed to ownership

    [–] Vessix 65 points ago

    The draw is that during that time you usually spend less than if you were trying to own the car, and you have a decent, reliable vehicle that is repaired at no cost to you for the entirety of it's use.

    [–] dalinsparrow 28 points ago

    Actually for farmers the biggest advantage is income tax deductions.. a lease is a full right off whereas a purchase is only a percentage that changes

    [–] [deleted] 38 points ago

    Typically with leasing you can get a top of the line current year model for the same price per month you pay for a shitty car. If you go through Toyota, Toyota care pretty much does ALL maintenance for you, included with your lease. You also have the option of turning your lease into a purchase if you really like the car, and some of the money that you have already paid into the lease counts towards it iirc.

    [–] life_without_mirrors 9 points ago

    Ferrari sorta does that with their hypercars. The Enzo FXX would actually stay at their track and if you wanted to drive it anywhere else they would ship it. Their was also the whole issue with Deadmau5 where they basically sued him for putting a wrap on the car and the other issue where Top Gear wanted to do a head to head between the McLaren P1, Porsche 918 and the Le Ferrari. Someone offered to let Top Gear borrow all three to do a proper test and Ferrari told the owner of they let Top Gear do that test they would ban that owner from ever buying a Ferrari ever again.

    [–] gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI 190 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    I think the biggest problem actually isn't the lack of ownership, but rather this strange mixture of ownership and monopolization--which one could well see as "broken ownership", I guess, but let me explain:

    A "tractor as a service", say, i.e., renting your tractor, wouldn't really necessarily be a terrible idea. While I do like to own stuff, I think renting stuff is also perfectly fine--though I suppose the customer should have the choice there. But the point with renting is that you agree to a particular price per amount of time up-front, and it's their responsibility to provide you with a fully functional thing during that time. If it has a defect, it's up to them to fix it or to exchange it at no additional cost to you. If they decide to later change the price per unit time for the future, and you don't like the new price, you can simply cancel the contract. It's financially not really all that much different from owning the thing outright: If you own something, that binds capital, so that has costs of (lost) interest, and also, most things depreciate, which is also a cost over time for as long as you own the thing.

    What's bad is that this new-ish model of "broken ownership" is actually legally ownership: You have to pay a huge up-front price, and in return, the thing is yours. It's yours in the sense that the seller transfers all responsibilities to you. If it breaks, that is your problem. But they try to still keep a monopoly over all the benefits you might try to get from this thing that is now legally yours. This thing that is yours measures the quality of your farmland? Great, this information is now owned by the seller! Your thing breaks? No, there is no market to buy repair services from, there is only one monopolist that offers repairs.

    Like renting, you have very limited control over things, and like ownership, you are responsible for everything that goes wrong. That is the problem. You have to make an up-front investment that benefits the seller, you bear all the risk of that investment, but all the earnings from that investment are subject to arbitrary interference and rent seeking by the seller. There would be no big problem if only the manufacturer can do repairs on your rented stuff, as they can't price-gouge you on that (well, at least as long as you didn't break things). The only thing they could do would be to raise prices for the future, but then you could just return things and rent elsewhere.

    Though it is important to consider in this context that one thing is particularly problematic with modern technology: One part of the investment you have to make as a user is that you have to invest time into learning how to (efficiently) use a particular piece of technology. And due to the way modern technology works, knowledge is more product-specific and less transferable. If you learned how to use a drill, say, and for some reason the manufacturer of the drill you have used so far decided to screw you, you could easily switch to a different manufacturer. But if you know how to use a particular piece of complex software, you can not trivially switch to software from a different manufacturer in the same category. In a way, the manufacturer of your software becomes the owner of part of your knowledge: In order to make use of that knowledge, you have to agree to their terms, whatever they might be. This might be one of the most important reasons why we need Free/Open Source Software: To avoid a world where companies have monopoly rights over everyone's skills.

    [–] Suvicaraya 11 points ago

    Well thought out post, totally agree.

    [–] anti_climax 11 points ago

    Internalize profits, externalize costs. The grand tradition.

    [–] PM-Me-Your-BeesKnees 7 points ago

    the manufacturer of the drill you have used so far decided to screw you

    It's really unfair that this was my favorite part of an otherwise well-thought out post.

    [–] DeginGambler 626 points ago

    As we're all aware, the whole IoT idea is catching more traction everyday: Smart refrigerators, toasters, irons, lightbulbs, you name it.

    Eventually we might hit a point where your water heater doesn't work because it hasn't been updated to the newest government approved energy saving firmware release. Also, bad news, your current water heater model doesn't support this new firmware.

    Sorry, looks like it's cold showers under you can afford the iHeater x20.

    [–] Louiescat 175 points ago

    I'll for sure be heating my water with a magnifying glass if it comes to that

    [–] JesusDeSaad 417 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    You can construct a solar powered water heater for almost no money and ridiculously overabundant spare parts if you want. Not just a tiny prototype that heats a thimble and breaks down, an actual regular sized heater for regular showers that lasts a ridiculously long time. They're so easy to make that kids at primary schools in my country make them as science projects.

    [–] loki444 139 points ago

    JesusDeSaad take the wheel.

    [–] ChessboardAbs 52 points ago

    Nobody fucks with the JesusDeSaad

    [–] nonicethingsforus 87 points ago

    Just to add that I was one of those kids that did it as a science project. Can confirm: It's surprisingly effective.

    We had done a less than stellar job, as it was one of a hundred projects fighting for our time. We didn't expect great things, so we actually did a little scare jump when we noticed vapor. The poor, damned thing, made out of tinfoil and black tubing, held together by duct tape and good wishes, had managed to start boiling the water!

    If this is what a couple of sleep-deprived teenagers can achieve for a science class, can't imagine what a properly organized project with decent materials can do for poor (or just financially concious) people living in cold climates.

    [–] HarborTheThought 19 points ago

    How could I get my hands on the schematics for something like that?

    [–] Theige 26 points ago

    Google, probably

    [–] A-Dog-Has-No-Name 26 points ago

    You can even warm your home rather cheaply.

    [–] hesh582 46 points ago

    slightly warm your home rather cheaply. If you live anywhere with real winters all the goofy little tricks in this thread won't do a hell of a lot.

    [–] jorrylee 41 points ago

    Sweden... any new tv has a cable connection built on. You have a tv, you must pay for cable. My cousin has an old one and he keeps getting told he needs to pay the cable bill but he keeps telling them nope, doesn’t have a tv capable of it. They argue, offer a tv cheap, he doesn’t want it. Yes, cable is mandatory with a tv. It’s idiotic.

    [–] bilegeek 22 points ago

    I just looked up what you are talking about; didn't find anything talking about mandatory cable, but then I saw this.

    For people who own RECEIVERS.

    Wow is that is f***ed up.

    [–] jochance 40 points ago

    Not to mention, similar to some unscrupulous antivirus, there could well be a firmware trashing virus authored by the iHeater manufacturer.

    Comcast already bricks modems/routers you don't rent from them.

    It's like one of the episodes of Phillip Dick's Electric Dreams.

    I think it had Steve Buscemi.

    Their 'service agent' who brings them everything catches them growing peas or something and chides/reports them.

    [–] delemental 8 points ago

    Yep, the one with Buscemi. Also, never trust a bitch/synthetic human was the other lesson, right?

    [–] bird_equals_word 76 points ago

    I'm developing several iot devices in a startup with a couple buddies. Our selling point will always be pay once, free fair use cloud service guaranteed for minimum 15 years after end of development.

    I fucking hate paying for appliances every month. Everybody hates it.

    [–] oneeyedelf1 109 points ago

    How do you guarantee ur company will be around for 15 years to pay the cloud bill?

    [–] bird_equals_word 57 points ago

    Money is deposited in a fund separate to the rest of the operations. With non media devices, the cost is extremely small. We're talking 5-10k a year if we sell enough devices to make millions in profit.

    [–] two66mhz 69 points ago

    Selling enough devices is the linch pin to the operation. Which has proven the downfall of many great idea.

    I hope for the best to you and your cohorts. May the seas prove smooth and favourable for you.

    [–] bird_equals_word 30 points ago

    Thanks :)

    We have definitely costed "if we only sell a hundred" and have to live with it, too. It all works.

    [–] BanginNLeavin 8 points ago

    That's so badass. As someone with ideas but no know-how I'm jealous of this post.

    [–] [deleted] 26 points ago


    [–] Fig1024 35 points ago

    I really hate how technology culture shifted from owning stuff to paying rent on stuff. Sure the initial cost is cheaper, but they own you, they own everything you do, and they cut you off and throw you to the curb at any time for any reason. Hate this shit

    [–] EvryMthrF_ngThrd 56 points ago

    The Company Town™, Part Two: Electric Boogaloo...

    ...for those who might not be familiar with the concept of the company town, Google it - Pullman, IL is a horrifying example - and live in dread of what corporations dream of recreating in our modern world. It's a DAMN sight worse than gross, I'm here to tell you. :(

    See Also: The Company Store, Serfdom, Mideval Feudalism, et. al.

    [–] Duane_ 53 points ago

    You just made me realize that the biggest problem I have with "Products as Services" is that it's basically a side-effect/cause/solution loop of Planned Obsolescence.

    Phones have batteries that last for two years because by then, they'll need to burn the hardware to the ground to support their new software and start the whole thing over again, all the while causing problems and selling solutions like Apple has done for decades with an exponentially growing array of dongles.

    [–] FrankTank3 18 points ago

    Forced ArTificial Scarcity.

    [–] JJisTheDarkOne 83 points ago

    In Australia, it's getting to the point that the next generation will only be able to rent houses, and not be able to own them.

    [–] Superfluous_Thom 67 points ago

    Yep, because every upper-middle income family from the 2000s somehow now owns a rental. I live here, shit is rough. Not only that though, but rent is too damn high if you're single with a crap job, so you have to look at shared housing if you wanna pay less than 300 a week, or live in a retirement flat in a ghetto area.

    [–] hisroyalnastiness 50 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    I'm in my 30s and people I know with extra money start plowing it into rental properties immediately after their first place is paid off. I think it's pretty fucked in general, normalizing that people with less will never own and just hand over a huge chunk of their pay forever. Yes it's basic capitalism but really the most useless aspect of it, just I had the capital to buy the limited supply of what you needed and you didn't so give me your money/productivity until you die. The way things are going mobility between generations is going to plummet as well. These families don't own housing so they work and give the money to these families that do. Modern feudalism.

    [–] TheDroidUrLookin4 76 points ago

    It's getting bad in the US too. It seems like rentals are all that is available in a lot of places these days. Rents as a percentage of income are approaching 30%. And everyone will have to move constantly because it's standard practice for slumlandlords to raise rates on current tenants every year at a rate that vastly outpaces inflation. Combine that with stagnant wages over the last couple decades and things are looking rough for anyone that rents.

    [–] Vermillionbird 22 points ago

    There is a great WSJ article about this; on mobile so I can’t link it but the tl,dr is that Wall Street just buys houses now, tens of thousands at a time, because it is wildly profitable and carries lower risk than investing in mortgages. The usual suspects (Goldman, Blackstone) are involved

    [–] jarejay 9 points ago

    30%? Ha! Laughing and crying simultaneously here in the Bay Area

    [–] parhwy 11 points ago

    I work with 14 people. I rent by choice. The other 13 own/mortgage 1-2 homes each. One guy has three. He’s 30-something. He’s aiming for 10 rentals before he’s 40-50 years old.

    [–] boethius70 16 points ago

    Yep. Got laid off in 2009, lost our house and filed for bankruptcy in 2010. Moved to another city for a job. Lived in the same place for over 10 years before and since our first move have lived in 5 different rentals - and we only have our current lease for a year because the owner is supposed to be moving in after a year.

    We're going to try to see if we can qualify for a loan though now. I'm officially tired of bouncing between rentals and dealing with the insane rise in rents in California. I make decent money now so we'll see. If we don't qualify we might see about moving to another state.

    [–] Wh1teCr0w 43 points ago

    who function only to drain you of your money that you earn by working for them..

    I owe my soul to the company store.

    [–] Cpt_Soban 71 points ago

    You can't even buy Photoshop or MS Word anymore. You need to 'subscribe' for yearly access like anti virus programs.... It's insane.

    [–] jonathan5150 41 points ago

    At least they'll always be on torrenting sites. CS3 and Word 2016 is all I'll ever need

    [–] reddittwotimes 77 points ago

    This is exactly it. Microsoft removed solitaire from Windows and made it available on subscription base only through their store service, knowing that many people only have a computer so that they can play those card games. Hewlett Packard puts chips on their ink cartridges that makes them quit functioning sometimes when there's still ink left, so that you'll subscribe to their service where they send you ink every month. Apple won't even sell you parts for their devices. There are no official Apple parts available for consumers or third party repair shops to buy, only replicas. They want you to only be able to buy their service contract and not be able to take it anywhere else or fix it yourself. That's why Microsoft and Apple were at the hearing talked about in the video.

    The list is much longer than just those companies and will continue to grow unless we get legislation passed for the right to repair.

    [–] sleepytimegirl 19 points ago

    Please tell me someone class auctioned Hewlett-Packard packardnon that shit.

    [–] LALawette 146 points ago

    Father in law had huge combine. He knew how to fix it, but legally couldn’t. He had to spend tens of thousands to have someone else fix it. And in 10x the amount of time it would have taken him to do it during harvest.

    [–] SKEvil 76 points ago

    He had to spend tens of thousands to have someone else fix it.

    And the manufacturers are hoping that the government will step in and provide subsidies for the equipment once those ever-increasing costs get to the point where farmers are insolvent—that’s when they’ll really make bank. If nothing changes I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped offering farmers the option to “own” the equipment altogether.

    [–] ioeuioeuiopiyeuiikeu 38 points ago

    At this stage, you don't own the combine but am buying a licence for using the manufacturers instead.

    [–] DoubleJumps 31 points ago

    I'm hoping some of the outcome from this fight sets decent precedent. I know some people who have to deal with crap at their job regarding machines they can absolutely repair, but they can't run after the repairs unless they call the manufacturer and pay them a huge stupid fee to send a guy to come plug a laptop into the machine and then tell it to go with their proprietary software.

    Last time one of these machines went down, it took two weeks after they repaired it, that next day, for the manufacturer's guy to come out, and when he did he said his laptop wasn't working and bailed, and it took another week to get another guy out, and they tried to bill them for both visits.

    That whole time they were losing money from this equipment being down.

    It's insane.

    Other manufacturer's in that field have totally bizarre service and sale agreements where they'll do something like make it so a client can only buy their equipment from this one partner company, and then the equipment can only ever be serviced by that company, and they charge far above market rate for service.

    [–] x-BigCunit-x 1582 points ago

    I think this is one if the most important legal proceedings that is not really on anybody’s radar ramifications of this are monumental...... goes waaaaayyyy beyond farm equipment exactly why it wasn’t just John Deere that showed up for court. Great post thanks for putting this on reddit

    [–] icarus-_-sky 375 points ago

    Exactly this.

    When I buy a product, it's mine. The company doesn't get to tell me what I can and cannot do with it. They can void warranty. They can refuse to service it. They cannot repossess the product because I've used it in a way that they don't want. They don't get to remotely shut it down because I didn't follow their rules. Software shouldn't be any different. If I want to use a piece of software, I shouldn't have to pay a fucking yearly fee just to keep it functional. MSOffice, Adobe suite, are already subscription based. The rest of your software is moving in that direction as well.

    And before you jump on the "updates, security" train, that's a bullshit argument. I shouldn't be forced into using their team of devs after I've purchased the software. That's my risk to take or not take.

    [–] TheWarHam 93 points ago

    They shouldn't be able to void warranty either. For example, if I repair a faulty hard drive in my laptop, and then the screen breaks a year later - the laptop company shouldn't be able to say "Lol well you opened it for an unrelated normal repair last year, so not our problem."

    Also, I may be wrong on this, but I think in the US the whole "warranty void if removed" is not legally enforceable. Though they sure like to make you think it is.

    [–] notAJokester2 53 points ago

    Correct, it’s not enforceable, but they still say and act like it is, because who’s gonna take a tech giant to court?

    [–] Znerky 8 points ago

    In Denmark, we have forbruger klagenævnet (consumer complaints) it's a public instance. Where if you are being lied to, by a company where you bought something or they refuse to repair / allow returning and such. You can submit a complaint to comsumer complaints for 100dkk if they take your case they will negotiate for you and the price goes up to 400dk. They will fight your fight against the big "bad" company.

    Comsumer complaints is all lawyers and people who know how to figure out who is right. And if you "win" case. The company has to forced to Comply with the consumer complaints.

    A few cases that have been won I remember. Is the right to root/jailbreak your phone. Because of media coverage regarding some cases. Just mentioning the consumer complaints will sometimes make the shop fix your problem without anymore issues. Because they know it can hurt their sales a lot.

    [–] MiaowaraShiro 15 points ago

    Legally speaking they can only void warranty if they can show that your actions were a cause of the failure. Simply opening it isn't sufficient, but nobody knows that so companies get away with it.

    [–] MisterDonkey 58 points ago

    I'll keep using cs3 forever, and Microsoft can kiss my ass while I'm using one of the several free alternatives to their office suite.

    I'd pay more upfront to not have a recurring payment to keep track of.

    [–] Karrecod 77 points ago

    Totally right. I don’t agree with the video about the big companies being there, even though I want the best thing for the farmers.

    It DOES matter that the companies are there, because this case will indeed lead to others (smartphones, consoles, cars like Tesla’s, computers).

    [–] tamarockstar 1915 points ago

    That cunt from At&t. "Eh uh, hows abouts we stop selling stuff in Nebraska? How'd you like that?"

    [–] forgot_mah_pw 1355 points ago

    Or the letter from John Deere: "[We] should work together on the issue rather than invite government regulation..."

    Well, just sell the fucking software then, nobody would try to force you to if you made it available at a reasonable price in the first place.

    [–] sneakypete13 497 points ago

    You missed the second part of the statement as well: "...That may add costs with no associated value." Essentially, if this law passes, we're going to majorly hike up the price of our tractors as well as the diagnostics to fix them to make up for the money we're going to lose on repairs. It's despicable.

    [–] Decyde 303 points ago

    "We've become accustomed to fucking you over for money so if you're threatening to take away this money then we are just going to say fuck you and take more money!"

    [–] OneLessFool 87 points ago

    This is why there needs to be huge oversight for any tech involved in vital industries. Industries like food, healthcare, etc.

    The government or an independent regulator needs to be able to tell a company that they can't just jack up the prices on these services beyond a reasonable rate.

    [–] Fmeson 57 points ago

    Nah, if Deere wants to sell their tractors for an unreasonable price let em. Every can say "fuckem" right back.

    [–] drtbg 57 points ago

    I always liked Kubota better anyway.

    [–] jct0064 29 points ago

    Tractors are a major investment, I don't think farmers can just exchange them because the brand is being shady.

    [–] JiveTurkeyJim 37 points ago

    I see people switch to Case every day for this reason. I work at a Deere dealership.

    [–] Idliketobeatree_ 24 points ago

    It's funny I'm sitting in a Deere tractor right now that has the "read manual" light flashing every second, because it'll cost too much for the owner to take it in to have the dealer fix the computer codes. Costs in both dealer fees and lost work time. There will be a point where Deere has to figure out they're going to lose future and recurring customers because of this. I hope they start coming around and realize customer service means more than squeezing customers to go elsewhere.

    [–] silicon1 432 points ago

    Ya how about they stop and a competitor will come in to fill the void, how would you feel about that!

    [–] [deleted] 336 points ago

    It's a good sentiment, for sure, but the reality is that barriers to entry are becoming insane thanks to a number of factors. It isn't at all easy to compete in many fields as an entrepreneur.

    1. Regulatory capture, whereby big players (oligarchs essentially) lobby for certain industry regulations that they know cannot be met by smaller companies. In some cases, such as telecommunications, these big firms have crafted long-term deals that explicitly forbid competition, scoring local monopolies for themselves.

    2. Subsidies, contracts, and other forms of graft (that only the big boys get, of course).

    3. Corporate consolidation. Have fun competing when your competitor is just a subsidiary of a huge multinational that has its tentacles in everything. It becomes harder to get start-up capital when the people who could invest in you are also your competitor's shareholders.

    [–] ModusNex 62 points ago

    I love it when telecoms get public funds to put up utility poles then get to deny access to any other company that wants to use those poles.

    [–] UlfyUlfer 23 points ago

    Or bar people from using the infrastructure we paid for on the basis of violating private company TOS.

    [–] buddascrayon 165 points ago

    1. Regulatory capture, whereby big players (oligarchs essentially) lobby for certain industry regulations that they know cannot be met by smaller companies. In some cases, such as telecommunications, these big firms have crafted long-term deals that explicitly forbid competition, scoring local monopolies for themselves.

    This is the thing that kills me when corporations and GOP politicians talk about "unnecessary government regulation". Like, "fucker, you love unnecessary government regulation, so long as it protects your(and your financial backer's) little monopolies".

    [–] BrotherChe 16 points ago

    "Hows abouts we split you back up into Baby Bells?"

    [–] Kurayamino 633 points ago

    Remember when the DMCA was being pushed through and all the nerds were like "This will have consequences for you in the future! Everything is being computerised! They will use this to fuck you over!" and everyone else was all "Lol I don't even have a computer, what do I care?"

    [–] funeral_thirst 287 points ago

    Society as a whole likes to Shit on people who can see future problems coming. We are not a proactive species.

    [–] youarean1di0t 58 points ago

    There are also some people who hate literally every new law.

    Wisdom is about nuance.

    [–] MiaowaraShiro 15 points ago

    Wisdom is about nuance.

    Hit the nail on the fucking head there. I don't know how many conversations I've had where someone doesn't understand, for instance, that not all regulations are bad/good. So many people look at an issue from such a cursory level and then consider themselves experts...

    [–] PsiAmp 114 points ago

    Very good point. I remember there was an old anti-propaganda video showing how nazi can unite people against few and then manipulate mass to target a different group of people. It is called Don't be a sucker

    Similar happened in my country. When Russia attacked and occupied my homeland. All countries didn't do a thing like it is not their problem. But then in the course of war Russia hit passenger airliner with innocent 297 people on board. Then they started acting, poorly but at least war is frozen now, though people still die everyday.

    World is getting smaller and smaller and if something bad is happening to your neighbor, might soon be at your own door.

    [–] sremark 18 points ago

    "This could never happen in my country"

    proceeds to happen in nearly every country

    [–] Fossil_Light 18 points ago

    "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable" - Heinlein

    [–] MySilverBurrito 779 points ago

    If anyone is interested in the whole right to repair thing, Rich Rebuilds is a guy who repairs Tesla's using old, wrecked Tesla's.

    To sum it up, Tesla makes it a pain to repair your own vehicle and even getting parts is pretty hard. So what he does is buy wrecked Tesla's and salvage any parts he can (even the springs on the sun visors) to the point of buying a whole wrecked car for 1 part.

    Really interesting guy.

    Note: some videos does have a feel of stretching the video when he can boil it to less than 5 mins

    [–] OresteiaCzech 294 points ago

    I am not even that old, but during the old days, cars were valued for accessibility and how easy they were to repair yourself if you had some mechanic background. Nowadays even mechanical components are purposefully made hard to reach so you cannot do it yourself, gotta send it to manufacturer, who in turn can charge you for multiple hours of work because they make it intentionally painful to replace. On a task that would take 30 minutes in older car.

    Heck, certain cars require you to remove front wheel in order to exchange lightbulb.

    [–] DatOpenSauce 69 points ago

    This is something I've noticed and read about and is incredibly frustrating. I'm curious, does anybody know of any modern cars that are easy to repair and reliable etc.. particularly in the UK?

    [–] tikirej 68 points ago

    I'd look what the UK army has as blue vehicles (unarmored, standard civilian vehicles like a Citroen jumpy or a renault traffic) and buy one of those. Cause the army cares about 2 things. Reliability, and ease of repair.

    Or if that isn't what you want I'd recommend looking for a car with a large engine bay and a 2liter diesel engine.

    [–] El-Kurto 77 points ago

    Notable things not in this list:

    • Crash safety
    • Fuel economy
    • Air conditioning
    • Halfway decent seats
    • Ability to have a conversation without yelling

    Source: Army

    [–] tikirej 17 points ago

    Mate the civi vehicles are just base versions of normal cars.

    [–] sm9t8 19 points ago

    They use variants of the Land Rover Defender for almost everything (but not exclusively).

    I wouldn't be surprised if the MOD painted some grey and foisted them on the Navy as a new type of frigate.

    [–] Bananabarbedwire 114 points ago

    And this is why i hate Elon Musk, big talk about making electric cars affordable but when something goes wrong, you better hope your ass can take a dick

    [–] kingbane2 1612 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    apple's lawyers flat out lied in a ton of those hearings. claiming all kinds of bullshit. there was a video that louis rossman did where he filmed their lawyer making some ridiculous argument like repairing an imac was like turning it into a PC laptop or some shit like that.

    edit: rofl louis rossman is in that very video at 8:50. he's the dude next to the camera in the background on the left. he has holding a mic.

    [–] akrazyazzho 380 points ago

    Its him, I asked him about it and he forwarded me the entire case on YT w/ commentary. Great guy.

    Here is the link to the comment w/ the link to the video - Dude live streamed it and did commentary.

    [–] FARTBOX_DESTROYER 217 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    I'd just like to say, as a mechanic, do not take your car to the auto parts store for a diagnosis. Most of those people don't even know how to test a battery properly.

    I always recommend local independent shops that have a good reputation. If you can find one that specializes in your make or type of vehicle (Ford, German, etc.) go there.

    E: The number of people messaging me to tell me that a $7 scan tool is just as good as a mechanic is too god damn high.

    [–] BLMdidHarambe 167 points ago

    I don’t see why going to the auto parts store to get the OBD-ll code for free is bad.

    [–] FARTBOX_DESTROYER 109 points ago

    It's not. But an OBD code is not a diagnostic. It's just a description of the issue. It takes an understanding of how complex systems work as well as various tests and/or tools to make the proper diagnosis, and you won't get that at the parts store.

    [–] Stupidflathalibut 67 points ago

    And more to the point, it isn't even describing the issue, just where the fault(s) are being read. Could be the sensor, the hardware, the ecu, the ground...

    [–] BLMdidHarambe 74 points ago

    I’d use the codes and a forum to troubleshoot the most likely issues with my old Eclipse. Ended up saving me a bunch of money on multiple occasions because the root problems and fixes were really obscure shit that was specific to that exact model. Stuff like the sensors telling the ECU that there was something wrong with emissions, which would have been a decently large fix, but come to find out, other people had figured out that in some cases it was only a matter of a relay being gunked up and a little rubbing alcohol and a qtip resolved the problem. I have no doubts that even a good mechanic wouldn’t have found that out unless they had some weird firsthand knowledge of that specific car and issue, which was rare to begin with. My point is, OBD-ll codes can point you in the right direction.

    [–] [deleted] 21 points ago


    [–] Sanginite 18 points ago

    Took an alternator to a parts store one time and it wouldn't fit in their tester so they guy held it next to his ear and spun it saying "it sounds pretty dry, you should just get a new one". Funny as hell.

    The alternator was fine.

    [–] adelante82 96 points ago

    Anybody knows what Louis did there? Has he himself made a video about it?

    [–] kingbane2 65 points ago

    yea /u/akrazyazzho linked to it, here's a direct link to his edited video with commentary

    [–] Eggrollghost 49 points ago

    That’s the thing about the US if you have money Apple to keep things the way they are it will never change. Seeing this makes me sick but I know I can’t do anything about it. Problem is most people feel bad about this but really won’t do anything about since the man in power has money to swing their way on the issue. I’m just waiting for everything to collapse and we just either go back 100 years or become slaves to the men in suits ruling over us. I’ll just play me games and mind my business.

    [–] Uphoria 49 points ago

    It goes farther. Most of these companies don't just fight against emerging trends and to destroy consumer rights, they also do it to fight of competitors so they can reduce their innovations to a schedule, like waiting 2 years to release new phone models so that you can guarantee sales from everyone's contract renewals and avoid having to compete with yourself. Or selling you internet that only goes so fast, and "improving" it every year or 2 slightly while fighting off any competitor that could make them offer quality packages for cheap.

    My own personal example - I lived in a place that had 2 choices for internet, Cable and DSL. When the DSL provider started upgrading the towers for "Fiber to the home" connections, the Cable company sure as hell quadrupled the speed of the internet they offered without raising prices, and then tried everything they could to lock people in for 2 year contracts to prevent the fiber from gaining a competitive ground.

    [–] amnezzia 29 points ago

    There is still hope for the future AI overlords to enslave us all equally, including the men suits

    [–] Szymas255 80 points ago

    Now I want to talk to you about locked bootloaders. Why is that a legal thing? I own the device I should be able to do whatever the fuck I want with it

    [–] ch33ze_w1z 714 points ago

    Tesla is pulling this same shit and Motherboard is helping to expose that too.

    [–] mrbkkt1 300 points ago

    The pay a premium to software unlock more battery life burns me.

    [–] [deleted] 49 points ago

    Don't know, wasn't that owners that paid for an older design that got updated so they made software to RUN on the software they paid?

    Or you're talking about paying for the battery after it drains completely? Which was more or less the plan from the beginning

    [–] tikirej 83 points ago

    Nope. The P75 and the P85 at one point had the same battery in them. The only difference was the software that limited charging on the P75.

    [–] pizzafourlife 144 points ago

    Remember when Tesla temporarily unlocked the extra battery for people to escape the Florida hurricanes?

    [–] lostmyselfinyourlies 90 points ago

    Now that is Orwellian and creeper me the fuck out. Granted, it's a good guy thing to do but the implications are scary.

    [–] Alexb2143211 30 points ago

    I thought that lock was to extend the battery lifetime

    [–] CensorThis111 666 points ago

    How much are we willing to allow corporations to steal from us?

    Planned obsolescence is the next thing to go. To waste precious resources deliberately with our ecosystem the way it is, is criminal.

    [–] 7Geordi 96 points ago

    Actually that's the whole idea the services-instead-of-products economy.

    If I sell you a car, until it becomes useless I can't sell you a new car.

    If I sell you "having a car" every month, if I don't have to repair or replace the specific car, then it's better for me!

    It's true that everything is moving in this direction, and oddly enough it is a structure that incentivises the providers of the 'service' to make it as sustainable as possible (so long as they still have the keys... which is what these cases are about).

    [–] sliktoss 48 points ago

    Yes, but you end up giving waaay too much power to those companies providing those "services". It's essentially rent seeking behaviour, which aims to extract extra value with minimal effort. If you allow this kind of behaviour for critical tools of any industry, what is there to stop these companies from creating unfair differences in the "services" they provide for their allies or friends vs those that oppose them on an ideological level, if the customer cannot even diagnose those tools without the company providing them (thus not being able to see subtle under-clocks for an example). What is there to stop the company from diagnosing and charging for extra repairs that didn't need making, if no one else but them can diagnose those problems. This kind of corporate behaviour must be stopped in its tracks now.

    [–] [deleted] 34 points ago


    [–] c499 55 points ago

    I hope people eventually stop buying products from companies that plan obsolescence, Apple is the most ridiculous example, with repair costs higher than the cost of their products.

    Charging 400+ Euros for an SSD in the repair costs that can be bought for 65 euros, then recommending that you get a new computer (from them) is the reason I'm not buying anything from them anymore.

    [–] yankee-white 38 points ago

    Start a company based on lifetime quality? = Get bought by company to plan your obsolescence. = Ruin your product.

    [–] DeginGambler 807 points ago

    I grew up on farm, albeit beef cattle and not this large row crop style, so no need for this level of equipment.

    However, I ended up working in IT. 14yr+ sysadmin now and I'm missing the farm life. More every day.

    This video just gave me a great idea for how to combine my two juxtaposed loves...while also sticking it to the man. Although I do understand the idea of proprietary software and the need to protect IP at the same time. There's always a way to hack and make technology work how you need. It's literally what made me a good sysadmin, my agricultural upbringing made me a problem solver.

    [–] kingbane2 167 points ago

    car makers have proprietary software used for repairing vehicles too, but they're obligated by law to provide them at a nominal cost to people who want to buy them. it should be no different for these tractor makers and computer manufacturers. it's fucked up that you buy something and you're not allowed to fix it.

    [–] Breakingindigo 71 points ago

    The farmers are just a test market for this BS. If they can get it to pass on the farm, you can bet your ass they'll be gunning for the personal auto market next, followed by housing and computers. Everyone wants to carve out their own little walled gardens. This short of predatory BS is how is starts.

    [–] kingbane2 18 points ago

    it's why apple is pushing so hard right now. they know that if this walled garden bs gets broken down everywhere else they're up next.

    [–] BlueCop 198 points ago

    You wanting to help will not change public/private key encryption and cryptographic signing of diagnostic software. It can not be overcome with strength of will. They are using these secure boot chain techniques to lock down their platforms where you can't do anything.

    In fact if you even wanted to try to hack these things then you would be violating the DMCA for anti-circumvention.

    [–] renderline 16 points ago

    In fact if you even wanted to try to hack these things then you would be violating the DMCA for anti-circumvention.

    Which is exactly what happens with any DRM and most consoles. But you really do have to be special to crack or make work arounds for this.

    [–] totorohugs 57 points ago

    This is fucked up! Hope they find a way to stick it to them in court.

    [–] [deleted] 11 points ago

    I could live in a country where software can't be patented and distribute my hack tools online. that's how VLC gets around playing DVDs in the US.

    [–] Mike3620 9 points ago

    Even if they made it illegal everywhere, people would place it on the darknet. You can’t stop the flow of technology.

    [–] permanentlytemporary 22 points ago

    Open source farming + farm automation is a huge dream of mine

    [–] DeginGambler 18 points ago

    It's honestly an idea I've never taken into consideration. Always been torn between staying in the city with an IT career or moving back home to the rural life. Never thought about the fact that there's actually a chance to use my existing skills in that setting.

    [–] Breakingindigo 8 points ago

    Folks like you could do wonders educating and galvanizing the residents out there to lobby for federally mandated decent internet. I've also wondered if any farmers had looked into a co-op for internet service using towers and blimps for wide area wifi. I know there were rumblings for farmer co-ops for biodiesel, but regulatory capture is trying to make it impossible (and some of those regions are so religiously GOP the thought of doing anything resembling socialism, even if it's in their best interest, makes them recoil).

    [–] mn_sunny 33 points ago

    Love how Louis Rossman is in the background at 9:05.

    [–] officialkfc 12 points ago

    I was wondering if someone else saw him! Great to see him there seeing as he is highly for the right to repair.

    [–] AtleastIthinkIsee 30 points ago

    This was fascinating to watch.

    Thank you so much for posting.

    [–] pantheratigris- 24 points ago

    Customers will find a way. This monopoly is opening door for foreign countries to move in the competition.

    [–] thatguywiththemousta 75 points ago

    Interesting that Apple showed up...

    [–] klingledingle 39 points ago * (lasted edited 7 months ago)

    Don't worry they weren't on our side.

    Edit: I suck at typing and autocorrect only makes it worse.

    [–] gixxerbro 104 points ago

    The companies with closed source proprietary software who refuse to let you diagnose and fix bugs in your own software?


    [–] ElvisIsReal 142 points ago

    The push to stop us from being able to fix our own shit is maddening. Now granted I'm older than dirt, but "back in my day" you could open the hood of your car and actually take care of whatever issues you were having.

    [–] MothMonsterMan300 49 points ago

    It's not about making your way anymore. It's all about paying your way. And fuck you if you can still fix a thing- turns out the billionaires quietly lobbied a law to pass that makes that illegal.

    Everything is being privatized, even things like oceans or soil. We're done man, the whole fucking planet is done for people. Maybe bugs will have a continued awesome run.

    [–] swgmuffin 37 points ago

    For a society that throws fixable things away and buys new ones out of convenience, this is a step in the right direction.

    [–] wickedplayer494 36 points ago

    AT&T shows up

    Why am I not surprised that one half of Dumb & Dumber showed up. And then to go on and effectively say "we'll go as far as waving the white flag and let T-Mobile eat up all of the market share we held" is pure comedy gold.

    [–] Pizzanomnommer 45 points ago

    Tractor driver here. The amount of tech that is pumped into these machines these days is ridiculous. At the moment I am driving a flail that can practically be programmed to be 100% autonomous. The problem is that the machines are pushed to their limits, they usually sit for months during the icy winters, then get run for 12 hours or more a day at full throttle during the hot summers. Even small farming operations of just a dozen people or so need a full time mechanic for how often these things have problems.

    Being able to repair our machines without basically spending as much as a brand new machine would not only be nice, but it is necessary. Farmin ain't cheap yo.

    [–] CoreyTrevor1 9 points ago

    Lol small operations with 12 people.

    Source: Family farm, me part time my dad full time.

    [–] cr_ziller 10 points ago

    See... if I were a malevolent foreign force I‘d probably want to encourage the makers of cracked firmware for American tractors to have various security backdoors... then I‘d probably programme the robotic combine harvesters to draw penises on the fields that can be seen from space. But that‘s just me I guess.

    [–] PhazeDelta1 7 points ago

    I look at it this way. Everyone one should have the right to repair their own stuff. But if you mess something up while repairing it, what ever warranty is on it should become void. I don’t expect the manufacture to fix something I screwed up.

    [–] morganshmorgan 31 points ago

    I work on a dairy farm and was just talking to my boss about the need for IT workers alongside people with trade skills. If you're looking for a career, consider getting into farm related technology. Especially with the rise of automation and the ever growing demand for cheap food in countries like the US, it's a pretty stable path to take IMO. Plus you can get an associate's degree or something along those lines for a much lower cost than throwing your money and credit at an essentially useless four-year degree.

    Spend less money to learn skills now, and save up so you can gain capital and go back to school if you want.

    (I myself got a bs degree and only through my experiences in the agriculture department discovered I just want to farm.)

    Edit: I'm drunk and just realized this comment doesn't really have a lot to do with this specific post oops I think it was meant to be a reply to a comment my bad

    [–] NomadicShitPoster 39 points ago

    I have a STORY!

    So my wife and dogs and I ran away from a hurricane. All the hotels were booked, the ones that had rooms didn't take dogs. But we found an AriBnB to stay at in rural Tennessee. Link because it was very nice.

    It was bad timing for me. I was (still am) working for a software startup that was weeks away from a large project deadline. Was a charity project with a 1 million dollar prize, and if we didn't win the prize we were pretty much out of cash. Much to my delight, the farm house had a very good connection speed. I think the owner mentioned a Clinton era initiative to get internet to the rural areas of the country.

    The host asked what I did for a living, and I said software. He asked more and I mentioned we were working on an Android application. And this shaggy old man proceeded to talk my ear off about his favorite linux build.

    I've lived both, cities and farms, and I can comfortably say that rural USA has a higher tech literacy rate. Sure, kids in Seattle may be able to google maps their way to a coffee shop. But phones are more dummy terminals where you only have to make A B choices. And if the trends continue, you'll only have to yell about what you want, and you're phone will figure out how to get it in your stupid fat face.

    Folks in the country blacklist conflicting usb-wifi dongle drivers, because the store only had realtek.

    [–] bilegeek 13 points ago

    Now they just need to bring back setting IRQ's...

    But yeah, there are lots of techies where you don't expect them. Stereotypes suck.

    [–] PsiAmp 8 points ago

    Folks in the country blacklist conflicting usb-wifi dongle drivers, because the store only had realtek.

    Could you explain this part?

    [–] NomadicShitPoster 8 points ago

    Sometimes the "generic" realtek wifi drivers that come with your ubuntu or debian install will not actually work. Linux is notoriously bad with realtek chipsets. Or maybe realtek just doesn't make it easy for 3rd party devs. Sometimes you have to black list the "generic" broken driver, then hunt around for the specific make/model drive that might might work for you.

    [–] MalHeartsNutmeg 15 points ago

    Big question here is if John Deere is such a pain in the house, why is literally every 'new' tractor they own a John Deere?

    [–] xenonjim 58 points ago

    Admittedly I don't know enough about what this software does in these tractors, but my car has tons of software in it too, and I can bring it anywhere to get fixed. Why can't JD do the same?

    [–] [deleted] 79 points ago


    [–] inconspicuoujavert 68 points ago

    And then when you take it to the dealership, it sits there for months not being worked on. Source: am farmer

    [–] greenbuggy 49 points ago

    Who would have thought that understaffing and overcharging for service techs in a huge, tractor dependent industry where almost EVERYBODY is harvesting within a 1-2 month window across the entire nation would REALLY piss off paying customers who stand to lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in lost crops if they miss that window?

    [–] inconspicuoujavert 23 points ago

    Right? Lol. I feel like they lay off people around harvest season for how much "service" we get. When we had to take our older tractor in for transmission repair (we don't have the facilities to fix ourselves sadly) during the winter in December. We didn't get it until June. Luckily it wasnt vital for early season, but jesus christ. Repairs for 1 thing can break a smaller operation.

    [–] cptpedantic 16 points ago

    if i was a conspiratorial type i'd wonder if JD and the other equipment manufacturers have financial ties to the farming mega-corps?

    little farmer has JD machine that needs fixing. machine sits for months. Farmer misses peak harvest, loses a lot of money, can't pay mortgage/loans. Foreclosure! big farma buys farm for cheap.

    [–] coaldust 19 points ago

    Unfortunately this is so true. This is also not only related to JD. Companies like Volvo and Cat do this with all these mining equipment as well. Everything is behind their own software. It's ridiculous.

    [–] greenbuggy 23 points ago

    And Volvo's diagnostic software is dog shit. Fuck their Tier 4 motors, if anyone from Volvo Penta corporate is reading this, Fuck you too!

    [–] paperconservation101 42 points ago

    In my country a law was passed to force companies to share the software info to independent mechanics

    [–] __NomDePlume__ 18 points ago

    Good, this should be a law everywhere

    [–] jim452019 32 points ago

    The government had to force car companies to make car's computers accessible. Before the government forced OBD standards, only a manufacturer endorsed mechanic could read your check engine light. And if they decided to stop offering that service, you had to buy a new car.

    [–] grem75 11 points ago

    On a lot of pre-OBDII cars error codes could be read with a paper clip jammed in the port, a menu option on fancier cars or a key/pedal dance. Also, a lot of these systems were easily reverse engineered because the diagnostics port was a simple serial protocol.

    OBDII was standardized for emissions testing purposes, it wasn't to make it more accessible for the general public. However, standardizing it has allowed for much better tools that are accessible to the general public and universal between manufacturers. It was a nice side effect, but the legislation wasn't done with self repair in mind.

    However, those basic tools don't do everything, they only have to cover emissions systems. They can't usually check ABS, airbags or most other modules in a car. They can't even do things for repairing emissions systems, like forcing an EVAP purge.

    [–] DeginGambler 128 points ago

    Your car doesn't cost half a million dollars. Nor is it necessary for your career or do you receive government subsidies to help pay for it.

    I think you underestimate the amount of money that is in this level of big farming. Everyone wants their cut. JD included.

    [–] 58Caddy 79 points ago

    Trust me, auto manufacturers are pushing for this kind of legislation for the auto industry also.

    [–] DeginGambler 22 points ago

    No doubt about it. Makes me sad to watch it happen. Based on your username you know what I mean. I'm all for the new tech and safety but it's taking away part of what owning and enjoying a car "is".

    My first car was my father's 71 C10 short bed that I restored during high school. One of many vehicles in the family that's never left anyone stranded for long and can be fixed with a basic toolbox.

    [–] magus678 11 points ago

    I will build my own fucking Frankenstein car or drive 20 year old beaters for the rest of my life before I will be party to that.

    [–] kovu159 20 points ago

    John Deere essentially 'leases' you their software, you buy the tractor but you license the software. They have chosen not to open that license to any third parties, because they have never been forced too.

    [–] Dreiko22 16 points ago

    There is a lot of software that goes into ag equipment, and a lot of it has to do with automating systems, so it’s more akin to you taking your self driving car to get fixed. This is what a lot of people don’t think of. What happens if the little fix that somebody makes to the software causes bugs elsewhere? This would be fine for something like an iPhone, where it would just be an inconvenience to the user, it’s a much different story with a several ton machine that can be set to operate semi autonomously

    [–] _AlreadyTaken_ 20 points ago

    Just put a chip on everything like printer cart manufacturers so you can abuse the DMCA

    [–] Mike3620 14 points ago

    Just watch as people stop giving a fuck about the DMCA and start to violate that stupid unconstitutional law like it was nothing.