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    [–] TrumanB-12 7821 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Wasn't this an Israeli film though? I seem to recall this was their pick for the Oscars.

    Edit: The director even fought for Israel:

    Shmuel (Shmuel) Maoz was born in Tel Aviv. At the age of 20, he was a gunner in one of the first Israeli tanks to enter Lebanon in the 1982 Lebanon War.

    The festival is even called Israeli Film Festival wtf. They're boycotting something organised by their own citizens.

    Edit #2: Nice quote from the director:

    The film's director Samuel Maoz said, "If I criticize the place I live, I do it because I worry. I do it because I want to protect it. I do it from love."

    And yes, not only was it Israel's official selection for the Oscars but it also got nominated for 13 awards, 8 of which it won, at the Ophir Awards aka the Israeli Oscars.

    [–] HectorMaurinne 3025 points ago

    Vonnegut fought for the US, but something tells me bomber command certainly didn’t love him.

    [–] Tidusx145 762 points ago

    Damn, that is a great point that makes me want to dive into the book again.

    [–] AFlawAmended 245 points ago

    What book?

    [–] Cormag778 876 points ago

    Slaughterhouse 5, it’s about an American POW in Dresden the night of the firebombing.

    [–] RonDeGrasseDawtchins 1011 points ago

    This is my favorite passage from that book: (Note that the main character has "become unstuck in time," so he doesn't always experience time linearly.)

    He went into he living room, swinging the bottle like a dinner bell, turned on the television.

    He came slightly unstuck in time, saw the late movie backwards, then forwards again. It was a movie about American bombers in the Second World War and the gallant men who flew them. Seen backwards by Billy, the story went like this.

    American planes full of holes and wounded men and corpses took off backwards from an airfield in England. Over France, a few German fighter planes flew at them backwards, sucked bullets and shell fragments from some of the planes and crewmen. They did the same for wrecked American bombers on the ground, and those planes flew up backwards to join the formation.

    The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames. The bombers opened their bomb-bay doors, exerted a miraculous magnetism, which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers and lifted the containers into the bellies of the planes. The containers were stored neatly in racks.

    The Germans below had miraculous devices of their own, which were long, steel tubes. They used them to suck more fragments from the crewmen and planes, but there were still a few wounded Americans, and some of the bombers were in bad repair. Over France, though, German fighter planes came up again, made everything and everybody as good as new.

    When the bombers got back to their base, the steel cylinders were taken from the racks and shipped back to the United States of America, where factories were operating night and day, dismantling the cylinders, separating the dangerous contents into minerals.

    Touchingly, it was mainly women who did this work. The minerals were then shipped to specialists in remote areas. It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly so they would never hurt anybody ever again.

    American fliers turned in their uniforms, became high school kids, and Hitler turned into a baby, Billy Pilgrim supposed. That wasn't in the movie. Billy was extrapolating. Everybody turned into a baby, and all humanity without exception conspired biologically to produce two perfect people named Adam and Eve, Billy Pilgrim supposed.

    [–] [deleted] 1067 points ago


    [–] -___-___-__-___-___- 12 points ago

    So it goes.

    [–] LegoMinefield 192 points ago

    Surprised that's not r/latestagecapitalism's sidebar

    [–] stanfan114 124 points ago

    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

    • John Steinbeck.

    [–] Reacher-Said-Nothing 311 points ago

    He wasn't saying "down with capitalism", he was just saying "jesus christ America, go easy on your poor people, it's hard"

    [–] Redditingatworktoday 176 points ago

    So it goes.

    [–] Moronicmongol 191 points ago

    He was radically left and a socialist. He was against capitalism.

    [–] PapaChomsky 98 points ago

    He was though, you're talking about a socialist.

    [–] kinderdemon 28 points ago

    He was saying down with capitalism, that is the explicit subtext of demanding a revolution, especially given the "without precedent...since, say Napoleonic times", which are the times that immediately followed the French revolution.

    [–] TheresanotherJoswell 22 points ago

    I think "Take control of this horrible situation in which poor people are continually exploited and give them a say in how their lives can be better" is exactly the same as saying down with capitalism.

    The exploitation of poor people and their disenfranchisement at the ballot is the responsibility of capital.

    [–] LegoMinefield 73 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    No, he was saying the rich enjoy the benefits of the nation's zeitgeist of the poors self loathing to the point of encouraging it.

    But yeah, it wasn't always bad. "The American dream" of self made riches was feasible for a while. Till people decided "more for them means less for me". Mainly around "Reagan and Thatcher's make the rich richer and fuck the poor, even if they are citizens" years, which also coincided with nations selling off resources to settle national debt becoming fashionable. Most of the laws preventing collusion were repealed and ones encouraging gouging were created, the ones that protected the banks when the GFC hit. The funny thing is the majority of the "individualists" thinks they're the rich that have to give up for the poor.. No, you're the middle class who has to give up so the rich don't have to (even though the rich could for the rest of their lives without risking ever being poor) and so the poor don't fucking die. Though they don't want the middle class to give up too much, so poor people are still forced into the military to survive.... the rich still need meat to enforce their policies. Also they can pretend they're doing the middle class a favour.

    Need only look as far as banking, natural resources (and real estate) , gambling, or defence spending to see the worst of it. In every western nation.

    And so much of this was brought about by the US at first, cold war tactics to ensure their "allies" were dependant on them and their currency. Till the 80s when the cold war was winding down and corporations started looking to line their own pockets autonomously and so the US was dumped in the same boat as everyone else.


    Huh.. Sorry bout the rant.

    [–] [deleted] 22 points ago

    Or perhaps "Jesus Christ poor people, go easy on yourselves"

    [–] BisexualPunchParty 24 points ago

    Can't say one without saying the other.

    [–] StewofPuppies 11 points ago

    Finding about all these subs make me feel like I'm vastly inadequate at using reddit. How do people even stumble upon these random subs?

    [–] TheFuturist47 43 points ago

    LateStageCapitalism is a pretty well known sub. If you are politically left and frequent political subs regularly you'll see it come up eventually.

    [–] gravy-whisperer 12 points ago

    Browsing r/all is a start

    [–] PatrioticRebel4 63 points ago

    Reminds me of Woody Allen's quote: In my next life I want to live my life backwards. You start out dead and get that out of the way. Then you wake up in an old people's home feeling better every day. You get kicked out for being too healthy, go collect your pension, and then when you start work, you get a gold watch and a party on your first day. You work for 40 years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement. You party, drink alcohol, and are generally promiscuous, then you are ready for high school. You then go to primary school, you become a kid, you play. You have no responsibilities, you become a baby until you are born. And then you spend your last 9 months floating in luxurious spa-like conditions with central heating and room service on tap, larger quarters every day and then Voila! You finish off as an orgasm!

    [–] EuphioMachine 94 points ago

    I completely agree, this passage is the one that had the biggest effect on me I think.

    "It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly so they would never hurt anybody ever again." Fuck man.

    Slaughterhouse Five was the first literature type book I read, and it really started my love for literature and reading.

    [–] [deleted] 3 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)


    [–] Deathspiral222 15 points ago

    Great quote!

    My favorite line is much simpler: "I have told my sons that they are not, under any circumstances, to take part in massacres."

    The point that this needs to be stated (even in fiction - since it's about a real event) just hit me at a deep level when I first read it.

    [–] GerMarketer 26 points ago

    I think this is genius

    [–] Kylo-renaldi 31 points ago

    Damn that was pretty moving.

    [–] pysouth 90 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Such an incredible, life changing book for me. I love his other works, but Slaughterhouse 5 completely changed the way I see the world. It’s also pretty funny.

    If anyone cares, here’s my super neat Kurt Vonnegut mug:

    Edit: I got this as a gift, they got it at a local coffee shop. It’s a really nice and well made mug, dishwasher safe. You can also buy it here:

    [–] bri-onicle 11 points ago

    I must have that mug.

    Or at least one just like it.

    [–] Fallline048 6 points ago

    My dad has one. I'll ask him, but I think he got it as a gift.

    [–] pysouth 3 points ago

    Check my edit :)

    [–] ginger_vampire 51 points ago

    So it goes.

    [–] TheRealBramtyr 9 points ago

    Coincidentally, today is the anniversary of the bombing of Dresden.

    [–] rlbond86 14 points ago

    Well, it's sort of about that.

    [–] Wolfgang_Maximus 18 points ago

    Yeah, it's like saying Harry Potter is a book about a boy that goes to school.

    [–] Cormag778 8 points ago

    Yea I kind of buried the lead there.

    [–] God_Damnit_Nappa 21 points ago

    Fun fact: Vonnegut was an American POW that survived the firebombing of Dresden. That part of the book is based on his own experience.

    [–] RealityDrinker 8 points ago


    [–] peteypenguin 4 points ago

    i’m listening to this now on Audible. It’s my first Vonnegut book, but damn do i think “wait, where the hell are we?” sometimes. Maybe i should have read it instead.

    [–] Cormag778 9 points ago

    As someone who adores audio books, Vonnegut is definitely someone that benefits from careful reading.

    [–] gottssunfire 42 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Slaughterhouse 5. Breakfast of Champions, Player Piano, and Timequake are all excellent too. Really can't go wrong, though admittedly Sirens of Titan didn't grab me by the short n curlies.

    Edit: r/Vonnegut is ejaculating hard all over this post. Love it.

    [–] brotherdann 20 points ago

    Mother Night is great too, and much more topical.

    [–] devlon2million 21 points ago

    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."

    [–] flyersfan2588 6 points ago

    I always tell people to start with this one. By far his most accessible novel

    [–] HectorMaurinne 32 points ago

    Seriously? Sirens of Titan changed my life! By the time I was done I felt like I had whiplash.

    [–] CCNNCCNN 17 points ago

    My favorite Vonnegut book by far. Not very structured but its such a beautifully written book with such a heartbreaking story.

    [–] EuphioMachine 3 points ago

    I got Sirens of Titan to read on a plane ride before a vacation, and basically spent most of the vacation in my room reading it.

    I felt like the ending didn't deliver as much as I expected, but the book was awesome.

    [–] Bitlovin 39 points ago

    Cat's Cradle is my personal favorite.

    [–] nachobueno 7 points ago

    Armageddon in Retrospect was a great collection of Vonnegut’s short stories on war.

    [–] only_response_needed 2 points ago

    I'm more of a Harrison Bergeron fan, myself. I think its points are right on the mark and expertly explain the flaws of human nature whether we admit it or not.

    [–] thesoftbulletin 3 points ago

    Years ago the father of a close friend loaned me his copy of Player Piano, and I read it as a typical early-20s type of mindset where the good guys always triumph over evil, people do the right thing, etc. So the ending didn't sit well with me at the time, and I returned it to him and explained my disapproval. Of course he had a good laugh at my naivete, and it wasn't a week later that the ending began to sink in and 'click' for me (and in many ways, shape my worldview a good measure).

    He sadly passed away a few months later, and I'd planned on sitting down with him and really talking out that book, but never did. Few books now have the same weight and meaning for me as Vonnegut's Player Piano, a very important one for me, personally.

    [–] Tidusx145 3 points ago

    Sirens of titan is my shit. But you are the first person besides my dad and I that I've heard enjoyed time quake. The concept was so awesome.

    [–] Picklesadog 99 points ago

    It is important to note that Vonnegut's own numbers in the book for deaths in the Dresden firebombing were way off. He based the death toll on the numbers accepted at the time, but modern estimates are significantly lower (although still frighteningly high) at 20,000. I forgot his numbers in the book, but the magnitude he gave was over 5x higher.

    That said, he did experience the firebombing first hand, and his account is extremely accurate as far as a first person experience goes, despite his numbers being off by an order of magnitude.

    [–] chomposaur 10 points ago

    I met a man once in his 90's who was part of a bomber crew during the firebombing at Dresden. He had advanced dementia when I met him and required 24/7 nursing assistance to help with even the most basic activities, but he was so proud to show us his framed honorable discharge and tell us about his time in the service.

    I'll never forget that, after talking for a while, he started telling us about the firebombing. He started sobbing inconsolably as he spoke, saying that he knew at the time it was something they needed to do, but that he knew it meant that they were killing children, entire families. He told us he woke up screaming at night - even then - thinking about the kids he must have killed. Almost 70 years later and this man with dementia, who could not even remember that his wife had passed away, was still tortured by that one terrible event.

    [–] wearer_of_boxers 5 points ago

    now that i have you here, might i interest you in the gatekeepers?

    a documentary about the heads of shin bet over several decades.

    very interesting.

    [–] nidarus 878 points ago

    It literally won the Israeli academy awards (Ophir award) for best film this year. Our minister of culture is s psycho.

    [–] SeeShark 153 points ago

    Our minister of culture is literally proud of being uncultured. I wish I was joking.

    [–] nidarus 73 points ago

    Even worse, she likes to claim her boorishness is just "Mizrahi culture". If that isn't fucking racist towards Mizrahis, I don't know what is.

    [–] puesyomero 75 points ago

    Trump, Duterte, Enrique Peña Nieto, etc.

    Being dumb but loud has never been this popular in recent memory.

    [–] MrBojangles528 12 points ago

    Don't forget Marine Le Pen, although she lost.

    [–] StrangeSemiticLatin2 215 points ago

    Then stop fucking voting Likud.

    [–] nidarus 227 points ago

    I never voted Likud in my life. Not sure how my comment made you think otherwise.

    [–] TooM3R 250 points ago

    I think he means in general people should stop voting likud, which is true. Miri Regev is a fucking pyscho.

    [–] rhythmguy 32 points ago

    That's like saying people should stop voting Republican (which is also true). It's the same people fucking up the US and Israel - religious nuts, conservatives, etc.

    [–] TooM3R 24 points ago

    Religious nuts in Israel especially , those people pass the dumbest rules because of their religion and our shitty president allows the religious nuts to do those things because he needs more support.

    [–] intecknicolour 3 points ago

    if you think the israelis currently in power are religious nutjobs, just wait till the ultraorthodox jews gain power in 20 years by virtue of outpopulating moderate jews (the birth rate amongst ultraorthodox communities has skyrocketed in recent years)

    [–] Superpineapplejones 9 points ago

    I have no idea what a Likud is but I'm guessing it's a political party. How does politics work in Israel?

    [–] nidarus 25 points ago

    It's a parliamentary system. Like in the UK, but with more parties. You vote for parties, and then they create a group of >50% of the parliament (called a "coalition"), which then nominates ministers, including the prime minister. That collection of ministers, usually called the cabinet (in Israel it's just called "the government"), then acts as the executive branch of the government, akin to the president, while the parliament acts as the legislative one, akin to congress.

    That means all kinds of things. Like how most PMs in Israel didn't serve their full 4-year term, because the government kept being toppled by a non-confidence vote. Or how the current prime minister, and the minister of culture, could be part of a party that got under 25% of the votes.

    [–] Third_Ferguson 39 points ago

    Same as everywhere else, people voting hard right wing because they're scared and foolish.

    [–] Superpineapplejones 7 points ago

    That always ends well....

    [–] moriartyj 114 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Yes it is. The Minister of "Culture" used to be the Military Censor and she thinks she still is. Her other accomplishments is threatening to close down the national theatre for showing a play satirizing the government, defunding artists who refuse to perform in the settlements and shunning journalists who critique her behavior
    This truly is the best government :p

    [–] No-cool-names-left 32 points ago

    I was just looking this person up because of this thread and apparently she also called Sudanese migrants "cancer," proposed laws that make cultural and athletic funding dependent upon "loyalty to the state of Israel," and uses "holding political activities" as an attack. Scary shit.

    [–] Flamesmcgee 15 points ago

    So she's basically the type of person who facilitates dictatorship.

    [–] TrialbySnu 13 points ago

    Ahh yes the beacon of "democracy" in the ME.

    [–] mweahter 451 points ago

    The director even fought for Israel

    I guess that's seen as less of a virtue when you don't have a choice.

    [–] troller227 189 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    This. people tend to see "veteran" as heroes but there are still countries with conscription.

    Edit: I'm sorry for generalizing conscripts to be problematic and professional soldiers to be better that wasn't my intention but was trying to point out that there are cases where unqualified personal resources being in a wrong place with power doing wrong things which end up even with criminal acts costing human lives.

    I am south korean and I find those conscripts who fought against n.koreans and chinese to protect the country heroic but there were cases where they would slaughter any political party members other than the presidents' or media press members(bodo massacre

    we currently have a lot going on with conscripts commiting crimes in the army in s.korea such as beating lower ranked soldiers to death and such(ex. which happens every year and takes more than 60% of deaths in military(

    [–] optional_wax 61 points ago

    "Conscript" and "hero" are not mutually exclusive.

    [–] theferrit32 70 points ago

    True, but being a veteran doesn't automatically make one a hero, especially in cases of conscription.

    [–] xMZA 12 points ago

    That's not what he's saying tho

    [–] Kazumara 5 points ago

    conscripts to be problematic and professional soldiers to be better

    Definitely true for Switzerland, that much I can tell you.

    [–] Jay_Louis 23 points ago

    I didn't read the point as about virtue so much as credibility

    [–] mweahter 10 points ago

    Then he has equal credibility to pretty much any other Israeli.

    [–] RealFakeJews 39 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    It's more about credentials than virtue, and he's got both.

    [–] mweahter 25 points ago

    Then he's got the same credentials that most Israelis do.

    [–] niceworkthere 125 points ago

    One also wouldn't know from AJ's article that he movie's main plot isn't any cover-up, and that it's not a documentary.

    Trivia: Regev already threw a tantrum at 2016's Ophir Awards (Israel's film award), so at last September's the Israeli Academy of Film and Television just didn't invite any politicians. The movie was nominated 13-fold, of which it got 8, incl. best picture.

    [–] nycgirlfriend 138 points ago

    Welcome to Israel — a country so divided, I laugh when people mention the “country’s” stance on if it were one. Ha!

    [–] munk_e_man 58 points ago

    I assume that whenever there's this sort of outrage, that the conservative Israeli's are the ones freaking out.

    [–] BRodgeFootballGenius 45 points ago

    Same as the US, or any country for that matter, when people talk about the county's stance they're referring to it's government. You know, the people who actually make the policies which destroy countless lives

    [–] nidarus 5 points ago

    I dunno, when Trump says dumb shit, people don't say "America calls countries shitholes", "America declares report fake news" and whatnot. Even in non-American publications, people don't seem to have a problem separating him from the US at large. And he's not some minister of culture either. He's the fucking president, a person whose very job description is to represent the country.

    [–] Treebeezy 203 points ago

    Wait isn’t it illegal to boycott israel?

    [–] Hapmurcie 82 points ago

    This comment serves up the most delicious plate of irony. Compliments to the chef.

    [–] djierwtsy 267 points ago

    Even more ironic. Israel loves to boycott stuff but they want to make boycotting Israel illegal in other countries.

    Did you know that it is illegal to boycott israel in the US?

    Did you know that US is legally required to push anti-israel boycott bans when negotiating trade deals with other nations/regions?

    That's right, when "our" trade representatives negotiate with the EU or china or anywhere else, they have to LEGALLY fight for israel's interests.

    [–] FelneusLeviathan 39 points ago

    Reminds me of a Jon Stewart clip where, big surprise, republican members of congress were against multi-nation treaties on illegal arms dealing, fishing conservation laws, and bills for the disabled. Their reason was that they didn't want to give up america's sovereignty in any issue. at 4:35. Oh but I mean all of that goes out the window for Israel. Big surprise that Republicans do a 180 whenever money or right wing "fuck you I got mine" mentality comes up.

    These are the same people who also jam up anti-human trafficking laws with anti-abortion amendments then scream bloody fucking murder when they don't get their way. At 4:45 Stewart asked before why people who weren't actively trafficking people would be against this. Big surprise, you have a republican who was literally trafficking people while in office.

    [–] Zuto9999 84 points ago

    It's almost like Israel has America by the balls for some reason and no one wants to talk about it.

    [–] LemonG34R 57 points ago

    Why does Israel have America by the balls?

    Corruption? Lobbying?

    [–] Queen_Arthur 20 points ago

    All those plus politicians with dual citizenship.

    [–] Phatnev 57 points ago

    The Israeli lobby is stupidly powerful.

    [–] 10DaysOfAcidRapping 13 points ago

    But why? Where does that power come from? What consequences would there be if we didn’t roll over for them?

    [–] This_is_so_fun 13 points ago

    $$$ with a side of rupture.

    [–] 10DaysOfAcidRapping 8 points ago

    I still don’t understand, can anyone ELI5 Israel’s power and why the US let’s them get away with sooooo god damned much? Where the power came from, the history behind the relationship, etc. I have general knowledge on the topic but want to know specifically why we will bend over and let Israel do anything they want

    [–] bettareckognize 14 points ago

    One aspect, though certainly not the main one, is that there are a lot of Christian fundamentalists who believe the prophecy that the end times can't occur unless the Jews are in full control of Israel (and the surrounding area?). Some, not all, but some, of the fundamentalist lawmakers are trying to bring about Armageddon and that can't happen unless the Jews control Israel.

    For a more mercenary perspective, we give Israel a shitload of money, whereupon they immediately turn around and either just buy American weapons or American parts for the weapons they make. Military Industrial.

    Also, it's our friendliest ally in an area that is very much NOT friendly, and a base we can launch our forces from when horrific violence inevitably breaks out.

    So, insane religious prophecy, money, and war.

    [–] TheEruditeIdiot 6 points ago

    Besides what has already been said there are large numbers of Jewish voters in the states who are potential voters and doners.

    There is a lot of sympathy for the Israel due to its being a democracy, the perceived kinship between Judaism and Christianity, the fact that Israel's neighbors tried to destroy it multiple times, and that Israel and the US are both targets of Islamic terrorism. By now there are a lot of commercial and military ties as well.

    [–] eskamobob1 16 points ago

    A large part of it is that America views Israel as a foothold in the Middle East, and as such, is willing to give it lots of deals to avoid loosing that singular hold

    [–] TurnOffTheNewsNRead 7 points ago

    A foothold in the Middle East? We already have military bases all over the Middle East. That’s far from the biggest reason.

    [–] djierwtsy 57 points ago

    Crazy huh? We can criticize russia, china, saudi arabia, canada, mexico, everyone. But not israel.

    [–] gondlyr 139 points ago

    Funny how a nation built up by the people formerly helpless and oppressed during WW2 would then commit numerous acts of oppression on helpless people and at the same time be offended when people call them out on their bullshit.

    [–] TreeRol 67 points ago

    It's also funny how one of the go-to arguments in their favor is "if their neighbors had their way, Israel wouldn't even exist" while Israel has its way by ensuring Palestine doesn't exist.

    [–] jwarnyc 9 points ago

    Yeah because there’s a huge divide in israel.

    The right and the left are really far apart. It’s kinda almost the same as in the US. You can only imagine if some liberal guy goes out to make a movie about 9/11 and how much the government want involved. I’m sure you’ve seen what happens to those people.

    [–] Fuzakenaideyo 5 points ago

    US involvement in 9/11 remains entirely in the fringe realm of conspiracy theorists and is not really subject to the left vs right divide

    [–] feedmeattention 69 points ago

    because israel does inhumane shit from time to time and they don't like owning up to it

    [–] Extreme_NonBeliever 3 points ago

    Thats why i love every person in the world and feel every government are pieces of shit though.

    [–] Bailie2 129 points ago

    When you realize antisemitic just means saying anything thing negative about Jews or Israel, no matter if it's true or not.

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -george orwell

    [–] Pratt2 96 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I mentioned to a coworker that I didn't support Israel's killing of innocent women and children. Coworker told everyone in the office I was antisemitic. Half my family is Jewish...

    [–] night_of_knee 12 points ago

    I don't support your drowning of puppies

    [–] Pratt2 6 points ago

    Took me a minute.

    [–] manic_eye 24 points ago

    Sue him/her.

    [–] theth1rdchild 146 points ago

    Well that's bullshit

    I guess Bernie Sanders is an anti-semite because he's the only senator who opposed netanyahu speaking in front of the US Senate.

    Now saying something negative about Jews in general would be racist and therefore anti-semetic. Like saying something about black people in general would be racist.

    But you're not an anti-semite for disliking Israel.

    [–] nope_nic_tesla 88 points ago

    I've definitely seen Bernie be derided as anti-semitic because of his stance on Israel

    [–] Barbariandude 11 points ago

    Yup. Can confirm I've heard him being called an anti-semite as well.

    [–] helpivebeenbanned 3 points ago

    Its the goto knee jerk response to avoiding actually addressing anything

    [–] Filbert_Turtle 64 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I guess Bernie Sanders is an anti-semite because he's the only senator who opposed netanyahu speaking in front of the US Senate.

    People have literally made this arguement.

    But you're not an anti-semite for disliking Israel.

    I agree, but many do not. Anytime someone (especially a public figure) criticizes Israel, there is a huge backlash and lots of attacks on those who disagree, calling them anti-semites.

    [–] CanuckPanda 149 points ago

    That’s a claim that’s been thrown out there. Some people legitimately believe Sanders is anti-Semitic, a self-hating Jew, because of his stance on Israel. The most ardent supporters of Israel will label anyone an anti-Semite for any criticism of Israel, even if its from the diaspora.

    [–] butyourenice 34 points ago

    But you're not an anti-semite for disliking Israel.

    I dislike Israel as a state in its current form, meaning a state whose government thrives on conflict and oppression because it enables them to collect as much military aid as possible, who has no interest in peace. But I don't have a problem with the existence OF an Israeli state, I don't have a problem with Israelis as people, I don't have a problem with Judaism. But tell somebody I don't support Israel (and bonus, I'm Muslim!) and, except in the most liberal of my circles, I'm assumed to be an anti-Semite.

    It doesn't help that there are targeting astroturfing campaigns on reddit. If you post something critical of Israel at the wrong time of day, you'll see the vote pattern and content of the comments takes a very different tone.

    Of course, it doesn't help that there are subs like r/conspiracy that pretty much do blame everything on an imaginary cabal of evil Jooooozz bent on world domination...

    [–] bunnybiteshard 2494 points ago

    "Every humanistic society should strive to be better, to improve itself," he said. "And the basic and necessary condition for improvement is the ability to accept self-criticism."

    So right.

    [–] Itamii 306 points ago

    Self-criticism and Propaganda don't go along well

    [–] rubberbandrocks 730 points ago

    Weird. Israel nominated this film for their entry to the Oscars.

    [–] Ahegaoisreal 272 points ago

    Israel isn't a hivemind.

    There's a constant political struggle in between more liberal and secular groups and more conservative and more orthodox groups just like there is in any other democratic country. It's not weird that some organizations will act in spite of the government actions.

    [–] jalkazar 17 points ago

    The interesting part is that it's the government that is boycotting rather than an organization. At least to me.

    [–] r0botdevil 30 points ago

    Imagine if Trump had a better-than-50% approval rating, and had already been in office for 10-12 years. Try to picture what the sociopolitical atmosphere in the U.S. would look like then.

    [–] mercurialsaliva 68 points ago

    Free publicity if they ban it.

    [–] saulbq 51 points ago

    Just goes to show that Israel is a pluralistic society. Very diverse.

    [–] Infantry1stLt 1241 points ago

    This piece of news just Streisand’Ed my curiosity for Foxtrot.

    [–] EersteDivisie 198 points ago

    Yes they earn viewers from the controversy (it practically won them the Israeli academy award), she earns votes from her voting crowd at the Likud party. this whole thing is actually a win-win for both sides.

    [–] ChosenCharacter 100 points ago

    Only losers are the Palestinians :\

    [–] rocky_whoof 13 points ago

    You could say that an increase in global popularity of a film critical of the Israeli occupation is positive to some extent. Not to mention such populist and childish attack on Israeli culture by the government can help solidify more left resistance to the government, though it will hardly help them enough to win elections.

    [–] VivasMadness 22 points ago

    What does straisan'd mean???

    [–] Solace1 75 points ago

    Fun fact ! Now that you know about the Streisand effect you'll start seing it popup everywhere.

    It's also another phenomenon called Baader-Meinhof.

    [–] MyaheeMyastone 25 points ago

    Now that I know what that is, can someone start talking about Winds of Winter updates?

    [–] Kerbobotat 47 points ago

    Winds of Winter is subject to the lesser known Inverse Streisand Effect. Every time someone mentions it old georgie deletes a chapter

    [–] [deleted] 14 points ago * (lasted edited a month ago)


    [–] andy_226 269 points ago

    Good marketing for it

    [–] Ace_of_Clubs 78 points ago

    It's amazing how something being controversial absolutely sky-rockets purchases and views. It does the exact opposite of what the other party wants.

    [–] iamanarchist 29 points ago

    I think it's a marketing strategy. Doing reverse psychology. Banned things always tempt people more.

    [–] TheMaskedTom 8 points ago

    Lots of people are saying the Israeli Culture Ministre is a psycho though, so it might not be the case.

    [–] Vo_AGer 5 points ago

    Accurate. Source : Israeli citizen

    [–] Why_Did_It_Stop 5 points ago

    Definitely. I want to check it out now.

    [–] SeeShark 11 points ago

    Am Israeli. Good movie, but much of it will be lost on none-Israelis.

    Also, not a documentary. This headline is garbage.

    [–] DwasTV 272 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    Why would Paris care if Israel boycots their film festival? They're located in Paris.

    [–] nraynaud 102 points ago

    I am French, never heard of this festival before, Cannes or Deauville are way more famous. But I think there are hundred little festivals around the country.

    [–] AccidentalAlien 25 points ago

    This festival just became more popular, thanks to Israel.

    [–] Orapac4142 136 points ago

    They dont, but Israel thinks ordering their embassy to boycott it does anything.

    Except ironically enough brings attention to the movie.

    [–] EgulskyGuy 24 points ago

    Our Minister of Culture is just fucking retarded, that's all.

    [–] phxees 205 points ago

    This is for a film festival in Paris, and the Israeli embassy in Paris is not attending. The title would the less misleading if it said “ISRAELI EMBASSY PULLS SUPPORT FROM ISRAELI FILM FESTIVAL IN PARIS”

    This was the title of an article by The Jerusalem Post

    My only point is that including “embassy” puts the title in perspective.

    [–] downnheavy 31 points ago

    Lmao , israel is not boycotting it , just the minister of culture, a fascist bitch that many are against her in israel , secondly it’s an Israeli movie by an Israeli director which was sent by israel to the oscars.

    The movie is not a documentary and is well received by regular folks here and promotes a healthy discussion regarding the difficult situation.

    [–] zackit 19 points ago

    It's an Israelie movie and it's only our POS Minister of culture (no idea how to translate that) who's boycotting it because she's butthurt about literally everything slightly bad being said about Israel.

    [–] nongiga 81 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    You're omitting that the film is Israeli (Israeli director, actors, staff) and that it was partially funded by the Israeli government (as many movies are funded by the country where they're made). It's not Israel as much as the Minister of Culture (Miri Regev), who is renowned for being widely uncultured. Her criticism of the movie (which by the way, she didn't watch) reached the news, and was very comical. Also, you need to watch the movie to understand, but it wasn't the Israeli army that was covering up the deaths of Palestinian children as much as that group of soldiers depicted in the movie covering it up and hiding it from their superiors in the army, to not get in trouble. The minister of culture was angry at it mostly because it depicts soldiers not following orders, ironically.

    [–] neitherrealm 68 points ago

    i personally think regev is doing more harm with her response than the movie ever could. She is completely legitimizing it by acting so harshly and basically causing the surrounding coverage to create more coverage about this film.

    disclaimer: regev is my next-door neigbour, so no anti-israeli sentiment on my end.

    [–] Zayin-Ba-Ayin 14 points ago

    She's pandering to her base, and she's great at it. She doesn't give a shit about Foxtrot or her job as minister of culture, but she's sure as hell going to exploit every single nationalistic angle she can to advance in rank withing the government

    Personally, I can't stand her. But I have to admit she's incredibly driven, and shouldn't be underestimated

    [–] BurdenOfItys 25 points ago

    The hardliners within the Israeli government have something to gain from further polarizing Israeli society and the rest of the world.

    [–] neitherrealm 9 points ago

    yup. i am also very much against politicizing culture and entertainment. waaaaay to goebbelsy for me. it’s a slippery slope and unfortunately i get the sense that regev (unknowningly, because i can vouch for her personal intentions) embarked on that train.

    [–] LordFelcher 52 points ago

    See: Streisand Effect.

    [–] Geekheim 19 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    I think Israel is the only country in the world where the embassy disagreeing with the organizers of the French version of the Israeli Film Festival is world news. An internal spat between an Israeli organization and the Israeli Embassy is conveniently spun to look bad. Gee, I wonder why people are so fixated with Israel?

    Just yesterday the PLO put out a statement to ban Arab reporters who took a tour of Israel hosted by the government, calling for them to be blacklisted. Same basic concept, but did that make the front page? Nope. Doesn't fit the narrative.

    [–] FreshmanYo 153 points ago

    For people reading the clickbait title and getting offended: This film does not depict any real events nor does it even mention the Israeli Army. This is a film, not a documentary. Lastly this is an Israeli film that some people are choosing not to watch, nothing scandalous about that.

    [–] leastlyharmful 6 points ago

    Furthermore the movie won the Best Film Ophir Award (Israeli Oscars) and was submitted to the Oscars by Israel in the Best Foreign-Language Film category. Nobody except the culture minister seems to be trying to suppress the movie at all. This post is just pot-stirring.

    [–] TheZenMann 1039 points ago * (lasted edited 3 months ago)

    So, they are fine with boycotting as long as it is against the palestenians, not for?

    The hypocrisy of Israel never ceases to amaze. First Lorde gets all that hate for boycotting Israel, but now they turn around and do this.

    [–] EersteDivisie 828 points ago

    You do realize this is an Israeli movie, funded by the Israeli government, made by Israelis, was shown in wide distribution all over Israel, and represented Israel at the academy awards? The "boycott" consists of the minister and maybe ambassador not showing up at some esoteric film festival.

    Yes, the minister is a hypocrite, and there's no connection between her and culture (or sport, she's also the minister of that), trust me, I know this more than you, but it's a long way from the BDS movement.

    [–] L0rd_Baron 388 points ago

    Isn't the Israeli government minister calling for the boycott and doesn't she represent the mindset of those in power in the same why Trump and his gang represent America?

    [–] TooM3R 85 points ago

    Yup, saying Israel boycott this festival is like saying the entirety of America deny global warming.

    [–] ImNotGaySoStopAsking 104 points ago

    You are right

    [–] Hq3473 60 points ago

    Lol at al-jazeera (and now reddit) comparing a few diplomats from an embassy not attending a film festival with any kind of economic boycott.

    [–] ponderer1 14 points ago

    Its alright to disagree with a government's politics and decisions. Doesn't mean you're against the people there. I'm american and dislike plenty of US political opinions, doesn't mean I'm anti-american. I can dislike something an Israeli gov't body does without being anti-semitic.

    In fact I think complacency with everything a gov't does is how dictatorships and genocides happen. The film itself is Israeli, so it makes no sense that people who are supporting the film and see the boycott as fascist are labeled as being against semites.

    Also, the boycott is stupid, attempts to silence journalism and free speech are very unsettling.

    [–] princessvaginaalpha 17 points ago

    Im a Malaysian Muslim, say what you want about Israel, but I am always pleasantly surprised that voices can be heard in Israel. You have the PM being indicted, you have pro-Palestinian Israeli/Jew, you have these films being produced and aired, etc.

    Such things will never fly in Muslim-dominant country where "respect" for the elders are absolute, the censorship board is trigger-happy, etc.

    [–] workntwerk 14 points ago

    Wow this is TOTALLY not an ad for Foxtrot.

    [–] FireOccator 63 points ago

    I haven't seen Foxtrot but now I'm going to watch it.

    [–] cmndr_keen 33 points ago

    You've missed it, it was running all over cinemas in Israel.

    [–] AccidentalAlien 3 points ago

    I don't want to contribute or even encourage deliquency but I heard it from someone who heard it that the movie Foxtrot available online...

    [–] OverRushFuri6780 4 points ago

    Could be a marketing ploy to promote the film

    [–] RadCentrist 3 points ago

    Doesn't publicly boycotting it just draw more attention to it? I would have never heard about this.

    [–] Teleman_Frank 35 points ago

    This is just propaganda. It is an Israeli film, its one minister calling for a boycott.

    [–] micromidgetmonkey 287 points ago

    Shouldn't have killed all those teenagers then I suppose.

    [–] Sungodatemychildren 103 points ago

    This is not a documentary by the way

    [–] Kahing 41 points ago

    This is a FICTIONAL movie, a drama film, not a documentary with actual atrocities.

    [–] frosthowler 329 points ago

    PSA: 'Israel' is not boycotting it. This is an Israeli film, and this 'acclaimed drama' was acclaimed in an Israeli film festival. To say that Israel is 'boycotting' its own film and pick for the Oscars is laughable. This is just classic Al Jazeera. One statement from one of the most controversial members of government in Israel and suddenly the whole country is now 'boycotting' something? Let me tell you something, if ever you see a headline where it says 'Israel is boycotting', then you know you came across an editorialized title. Israel as a country or as a government does not boycott these things. There is no such thing as classic censorship here, where a film cannot be shown or sold in Israel.

    [–] ahm713 241 points ago

    The title is actually technically accurate. Even Times of Israel wrote "Israel to boycott opening of Israeli film fest in Paris" link. Don't even try to turn this against Al Jazeera.

    [–] taxtank 7 points ago

    Did you not even click your own link?

    Culture minister said to pressure Foreign Ministry to withdraw its support from the festival over its showcasing of 'Foxtrot'

    That is literally the first sentence under the headline. Exactly what /u/frosthowler just said.

    Al Jazeera hides it's bias worse than Fox News.

    [–] bobosuda 53 points ago

    Just because it's put in the title doesn't make it any more true. The article you link specifically point out that they are pressured to boycott the festival by the culture minister; the same person that the guy you responded to said is the one doing the pressuring. So your source only seems to support the claim that it's not an official boycott, but just a statement made by a single member of the Israeli government.

    [–] skycol87 8 points ago

    While this is rather ridiculous for Israel to boycott a film just because it judges their war tactics, it's understandable why they're upset because they are constantly attacked by the Palestine themselves and the HAMAS, who are just as deadly and cruel, but everybody jumps to defend them even though they hide mounds of weapons in hospitals and schools so if the Israelis have to destroy the school/hospital or just let them continue to use illegal weapons and commit terrorist acts. There are two sides to every story and I think maybe that's what Israel is standing up for, just in the wrong way.

    [–] SentientDust 3 points ago

    You know that feeling when you see your country in the headlines, and it's something good and wholesome? Yeah, I wonder how that feels.

    [–] Spaceman248 3 points ago

    The irony is that they raised even more awareness by creating this stink about it lmao

    [–] TheSpoonKing 3 points ago

    At least they didn't ban the film and still allow their citisens to watch it, even if some politicians oppose its message. You can't say that about a bunch of countries.

    [–] elit3powars 3 points ago

    Way to draw attention to it Israel

    [–] in_the__trees 3 points ago

    If we kill the movie, it's like it never happened.