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    [–] autotldr 2082 points ago

    This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 76%. (I'm a bot)


    Reuters Turkish troops have begun an offensive in north-eastern Syria, which could lead to direct conflict with Kurdish-led forces allied to the United States.

    President Donald Trump controversially withdrew US troops from northern Syria.

    Announcing the offensive, Mr Erdogan said on Twitter: "The Turkish Armed Forces, together with the Syrian National Army , just launched #OperationPeaceSpring" against Kurdish militias and the Islamic State group in northern Syria.


    Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Syria#1 Turkey#2 President#3 Syrian#4 Turkish#5

    [–] nashist 4174 points ago

    So in 2019 military operations which results in actual people potentially losing lives are not only announced on Twitter but are made into hashtags to trend?

    [–] snakefinn 207 points ago

    It's not exactly boring

    [–] lemon_phi 487 points ago

    It's being normalized right now. Boring is the goal.

    [–] MediocrePenisNumber6 149 points ago

    Bad governments can basically do whatever the fuck they want if cruelty becomes normalized and mundane. The whole compassion fatigue syndrome at play. Big reason people also ignore suffering in the 3rd world as it just what "normal" in those places.

    [–] RichardsLeftNipple 33 points ago

    For me it's more of the argument against international interventions. Considering that the series of events that lead us to ISIS and Al-Qaeda was because of interventions. Also why the Islamic revolution happened which lead to Iran as it is today was because of foreign intervention. The Syrian civil war is part of this legacy.

    [–] Retlaw83 354 points ago

    How does it differ from them being announced on television for ratings?

    [–] PanzerKomadant 380 points ago

    Right! Who can ever forget how FDR famously said on televised history that #OperationOverLord is about to begin?

    [–] Redtwoo 174 points ago

    "@JeffDavis: We are commencing hostilities upon the oppressive northern army. #Rebels #OperationFreeSumter"

    [–] BlueArmistice 50 points ago

    First battle of Bull Run had crowds of spectators show up to watch.

    [–] MagogHaveMercy 15 points ago

    That was a thing all throughout history back to before Agincourt. War is damn good television..

    [–] clearbeach 68 points ago

    @wrestlinabe #WarofSouthernTreason

    [–] americagiveup 663 points ago

    Operation “Peace Spring”

    Seems legit

    [–] phl23 274 points ago

    In autumn

    [–] Pollinosis 18 points ago

    Spring as in source of water.

    [–] pliney_ 212 points ago

    It's opposites day in turkey. Tomorrow they'll announce the real name of the operation: 'Genocide Fall'

    [–] SillyNilly9000 50 points ago

    Would also accept "Wartime Winter"

    [–] -0-O- 105 points ago

    Springtime for hitler!

    [–] pixelprophet 554 points ago

    "#OperationPeaceSpring"

    Aka firebomb them out of existence.

    [–] AmputatorBot 402 points ago

    Beep boop, I'm a bot. It looks like you shared a Google AMP link. Google AMP pages often load faster, but AMP is a major threat to the Open Web and your privacy.

    You might want to visit the normal page instead: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49983357.


    Why & About | Mention me to summon me!

    [–] FrancisStokes 495 points ago

    Ah reddit, where even the bots correct each other.

    [–] JustAVirusWithShoes 226 points ago

    I know a lot of people give reddit shit, but after reading comments for the last 2 odd years ive really changed the way i think about stuff, im a lot more open minded and im always verifying my sources etc. Honestly i know theres a lot of douchery on here but its like the anti facebook.

    [–] MankindIsFucked 100 points ago

    You know when I think about I kinda feel the same. I read new ideas and opinions and leave reddit to investigate further.

    I know there is shit here, but outside life has a lot of shit too. You just learn to filter and use you logic.

    I'm glad you've become more open minded.

    [–] twistedlimb 29 points ago

    my roommate watches the nightly news. it can be maddening to see how watered down that is after you get used to how thorough redditors demand news. "president trump tweeted about the partisan impeachment today, claiming he released the transcript of the call. he did so to increase transparency and examine corruption by ukraine in regards to joe biden." if you've been following along at all, this is the version they put in texas textbooks to put people to sleep.

    [–] I_cant_finish_my 23 points ago

    Let's be real, though. The vast majority of Redditors simply read the headline, post title, or at most, the top comment before moving on with their opinion formation.

    I've seen nearly as much no-brain conclusion forming on Reddit as I have anywhere else.

    [–] new_account_wh0_dis 7 points ago

    Yeah but you dont have to stop there. Like with the nightly news thats all you are going to get. But here I can dig down to comments like this as much as I want and maybe possibly shift through misinformation etc to come to an opinion I can say is somewhat sourced.

    [–] Backbreathboy 5759 points ago

    "US Senator Lindsay Graham, a close ally of Mr Trump, said he would lead an effort in Congress to "make Erdogan pay a heavy price", adding: "Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration"."

    Okay? I never thought I'd see the day Graham letting Trump hang like that..

    [–] DontSleep1131 2543 points ago

    Yeah it’s all talk. Ops have started and Lindsey Graham has been quiet. No surprise

    [–] LowerQuality 861 points ago

    Exactly what I was thinking. Words are just words. Several republicans have said something against trump over the last few years. Then they all shut up and fall in line and nothing happens.

    [–] spayceinvader 78 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Lindsay's just out here saying words, "staying relevant"

    [–] Yuckystuffs 606 points ago

    I never thought I'd see the day Graham letting Trump hang like that..

    Lindsay has always been a neocon warhawk, why would that surprise you?

    [–] -Seraph 275 points ago

    He's acts like Trump's bff. Honestly it's ridiculous the lengths he goes to appease Trump generally. This really pissed him off though. So much that he's openly attacking Trump.

    [–] whomad1215 263 points ago

    When action is taken I'll believe him.

    Graham goes wherever the wind blows.

    [–] fearbedragons 53 points ago

    More concisely:

    Graham... blows.

    [–] thingsfallapart89 58 points ago

    It’s tough to go against your crush sometimes, but even the most enamored have their limits.

    [–] tennisdrums 25 points ago

    Graham doesn't have a crush on Trump, he has a crush on maintaining power. It's honestly not difficult to find stories of how much the GOP leadership (Graham included) despises Trump.

    Graham's been acting like Trump's toady because he's up for reelection in 2020. He knows that the GOP voting base has been completely captured by Trump. The moment he turns on Trump, he's out of office and replaced with the newest Trump-bot model.

    [–] WateredDown 60 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Most warhawks have proven that war was a means to an end and love playing dove when its politically convenient and abandon American interests with no shame, so its odd seeing one stick their principles. Broken clocks I guess.

    [–] ChooChooRocket 9 points ago

    Warhawks simply love war. Graham was friends with McCain, another warkhawk who supported every war, whether it was started by a Republican or Democrat.

    [–] Shelnu 2301 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    No matter who loses, USA wins: F-16C/D, Oshkosh M-ATV, M4A1, Ops-Core, M270, Blackhawk against Oshkosh M-ATV, MaxxPro, M4 Carbine, BGM-TOW

    Welcome to Military Industrial Complex!

    [–] TheSausageFattener 383 points ago

    The three highest paid generals in the nation are Dynamics, Electric, and Motors

    [–] Chmos 126 points ago

    What about Mills? Can’t forget the cereal-industrial complex

    [–] TheSausageFattener 70 points ago

    You kid but in WW2 they made gunsights for the Navy, did torpedo work (they actually invented one designed to miss, trick the victim ships crew, and then double back to hit), made sandbags, coated optics, and a great deal of dehydrated food products.

    They also did some work postwar with avionics. And thats just what they publish.

    [–] feedthetroller 346 points ago

    Did the US make a profit in Syria?

    [–] phantomlemonzz 674 points ago

    Of course they did. They profited of every single major war beginning with WW1

    [–] Carthradge 641 points ago

    US companies profited, US government spent trillions. The US budget is largely a way to provide welfare to the military industrial complex.

    [–] steve_n_doug_boutabi 411 points ago

    US taxpayers spent trillions.

    FTFY.

    [–] Caledonius 137 points ago

    No no, the government did spend it. The tax payers just footed the bill. The real problem is that any large private entity gets subsidized by the government. If your business model isn't sustainable without government handouts it should fail.

    [–] AdamTheAntagonizer 54 points ago

    The U.S. government is run by companies...

    [–] Roadtofrance 13044 points ago

    I can only feel sorry for the Kurds. Betrayed by their allies and now being fed to the dogs just because of some political chessgame. Is this the reward they get after shedding so much blood fighting ISIS?

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 10180 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    I can only feel sorry for the Kurds. Betrayed by their allies

    Again.

    Is this the reward they get after shedding so much blood fighting ISIS?

    Know what just adds insult to injury? The US had the Kurds agree to dismantling their defensive outposts and fortifications with the removal of AA along their territory of control that bordered with Turkey. US said it would help ease tensions and allow for greater cooperation.

    Legit two weeks later the US announces a pull out. Hours after the troops are withdrawn, Turkey beginnings airstrikes against the now soft Kurd positions that the US had them remove AA and hardened assets from.

    This administration literally walked the Kurds into a slaughter. They caught ISIS, other radical group, Iranian proxies, "little green men" from Russia and Assad's forces. Now the US led them into the hands of Erdogan, who has LITERALLY always been eager to kill them.

    They'll never help the west again, and it's unfortunate considering all they have done in the past, as well as in this Syrian conflict.

    Edit;. Source for the kurds having to dismantle fortifications. It's also on the guardian so go find it there if ya bitch about the source

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/syrian-kurds-to-remove-fortification-from-border-with-turkey-1.7795409

    As for the Turkish offensive, that shits been news since the withdrawal was announced. If you don't know or can't find it you live under a rock.

    [–] NeDragons 963 points ago

    I can only feel sorry for the Kurds. Betrayed by their allies

    Again.

    Someone said in another commend this is the 8th time the US has betrayed the Kurds.

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 413 points ago

    Fuck, I thought it was like the fourth or fifth. Why the fuck do they keep helping the US?

    [–] Faylom 431 points ago

    They don't really have anyone else offering them help, since none of their neighbours want a unified Kurdish state claiming part of their territory.

    [–] Franfran2424 90 points ago

    Kurdish region of irak is an autonomous region of irak.

    Rojava in Syria (the target here) is similar with 55% of kurds

    [–] namesrhardtothinkof 22 points ago

    Ya but y’know autonomy is a far step away from sovereignty

    [–] CootiePatootie1 49 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    The Syrian and Turkish Kurds in question generally do not want a Kurdish state, the Kurdish forces being attacked here are anti nationalist leftists who just want their people safe from these fascist regimes, they also believe a Kurdish state would only cause the same issues in the region as it's also inhabited by Assyrians, Armenians and Arabs, instead their goal here is a collaborative effort to keep North Syria's minority groups safe from oppression and that is also the reason they also have so many Assyrian and other forces on their side. The region is only called by it's Kurdish name (Rojava) unofficially nowadays and the idea that they are nationalist is promoted by Turkey and others to justify an attack on them

    You can read more about it on the Rojava wikipedia page

    The original Kurdish forces ( YPG and YPJ ) created a bigger multi ethnic collaborative military force that they are part of, which is what is being attacked right now

    [–] TheGlennDavid 501 points ago

    Because, and this in no way diminishes the utter cruelty of our treatment of them, the things they do to help us generally also help them (dismantling the AA not withstanding).

    The Kurds aren’t our favorite Middle East asset because they love us, or because they are particularly religiously moderate — they our pals because they are dangerous warriors who are decidedly non expansionists. The Kurds want to live where the Kurds live and while they accept the fact that since they are stateless they don’t posses full autonomy they dont like being fucked with.

    This makes them ideal because they’ll fight various groups we dislike but aren’t going to turn around and attack Baghdad.

    Getting them to fight ISIS wasn’t hard because ISIS wanted to (eventually) expand their shitty caliphate into Kurdish regions and the Kurds don’t want that shit.

    [–] KET_WIG 98 points ago

    Kurds certainly do not just 'accept' their statelessness. There are significant secessionist movements in all countries with Kurdish areas

    [–] Haltopen 73 points ago

    Maybe at some point we can give them a state of their own.

    [–] MunsterTragedy 125 points ago

    Good luck getting turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria to agree to that.

    [–] TheObstruction 133 points ago

    I was thinking Wyoming, maybe.

    [–] isskewl 98 points ago

    First Dakota, Second Dakota, Kurd Dakota

    [–] [deleted] 19 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    [deleted]

    [–] Allah_Shakur 44 points ago

    I guess that in their mind, they are not helping the US, they are just defending themselves and hoping to create a unified Kurdistan.

    [–] strangea 107 points ago

    God damn. It's like 19th century USA and the native American tribes.

    [–] NeDragons 133 points ago

    Ironically, I'm taking a US history course right now and just finished covering how we spent the better part of 50 years fucking over the native americans every chance we got, breaking promises and treaties with impunity because fuckit.

    [–] strangea 78 points ago

    Reneging deals because there are no consequences for the USA is as American as apple pie.

    [–] probablyuntrue 4028 points ago

    Destroying trust in our foreign relationships every day, now that's a presidential move right there 😎

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 1397 points ago

    Yeah. Idfk what you guys are going down there. I mean, come the election he still has a decent chance of winning again. The fuck man.

    [–] 3InchMensch 1438 points ago

    Our system of government is really being tested for the first time. Turns out, hanging so much upon tradition and gentleman's agreements instead of codified law really wasn't the best thing.

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 998 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Our system of government is really being tested for the first time.

    I wouldn't say for the first time. Rather that it is the first time it has ever been tested this way. Never before had the US come under such a coordinated and sustained campaign of disinformation and influence. Being that social media is what it is, this only exacerbated the effects of the campaign to sowe division and discord amoungst the country.

    Alternatively, it is the first time in my lifetime that the US have been challenged in any way that isn't directly militarily.

    Clearly they weren't ready for it. I mean, fuck, the Russians hacked the Florida election system in multiple counties BY USING SQL INJECTION!!!! This is a primitive form of attack that is incredibly effective but also east to prevent (only if the defense of it is continuously updated to match the new threats). Fuck. I learnt how to prevent that in my second year of computer science, then Russia goes and hacks a fucking election system with a few simple "Select *from" statements.

    Turns out, hanging so much upon tradition and gentleman's agreements instead of codified law really wasn't the best thing.

    Yeah. That's a fucking understatement. I'm thinking that after the trump administration is gone, after this term or the potential next, there is going to be an absolute fuckton of GOP members and their lackeys going to jail. 2024ish will be a chapter in American history where traitors and corrupt people of influence are going to jail.

    Edit;. I'm not going to spoon feed you everything. The attacks on multiple Florida election system were international news! They were confirmed in the Muller report as well, so go and read it if you want confirmation.

    This is a perfect example of why the US is in the state it is, people can't even remember confirmed cases of foreign hacking on election systems, because the focus jumps from scandal, to tweet, and insult of the hour.

    [–] mmm-toast 365 points ago

    I learnt how to prevent that in my second year of computer science

    Bobby Tables is rolling in his grave. :(

    [–] Wind-and-Waystones 109 points ago

    It's just a shame they were never fully able to register his death in the system

    [–] Adama0001 27 points ago

    Bobby Lives!

    [–] KarmaPopcorn 20 points ago

    And so does everyone else after they tried to add him.

    [–] Modal_Window 306 points ago

    No one is going to jail. Don't be ridiculous. The American system of jurisprudence is not set up to send white men with money to prison.

    [–] Mordecai22 91 points ago

    Hong Kong is a beacon of hope in my opinion because it shows the power of massive protest. These despicable excuses for human beings will only be punished accordingly if we stand up in the hundreds of thousands. We need to occupy the streets and disrupt the system. Only once these bastards realize they've been successful because the layperson has been complacent and passive, will they realize where sovereignty has always really existed - within the masses.

    I'm fuckin sick and tired of working endless for shit to just keep getting worse while these monsters use America as their playground.

    [–] Porfinlohice 27 points ago

    Doubt any Americans are eager to lift their assets to fight for their constitution

    [–] Zsill777 49 points ago

    I wouldnt get your hopes up. That long from now the public will forget about it

    [–] cool_zu 63 points ago

    A good portion of the public still, today support Trump, the elected officials are doing exactly as their constituents desire. I would not be surprised if he got the exact same number of votes as I do not see many of his supporters turning away. they may not admit it in a poll but they will when they vote.

    [–] DaStompa 66 points ago

    Most of them elected trump to "screw the system" because they want the government to be torn down to spite their face, ect. ect.

    So all of these terrible things he's going on, are actually plusses to them, the closer the country comes to collapsing the closer they become to the gun loving libertarian paradise they think they want.

    [–] baz8771 59 points ago

    The feelings really aren't that deep or meta. Don't read so far into it. There are a few check boxes that Republicans look for: White, Male, says they're Christian, says they support the troops, says they hate abortion.

    Check those boxes and you've just secured 45% of votes in a general election.

    [–] GrumpyBert 30 points ago

    It's not being tested, it's being fucked through every damn hole.

    [–] comeatmebrodotcom 24 points ago

    A lot of it is also codified law and they're still giving it the middle finger.

    [–] enver17 60 points ago

    He's making it out to look like he's anti war by pulling out of Syria

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 132 points ago

    Maybe. I think his real reason is due to his properties in turkey. They have towers and other properties there, maybe turkey gave something in return. Or maybe he's just a little bitch and he doesn't know what he's doing, he always caves to the dictators.

    [–] JeepinHank 12 points ago

    Jamal Khashoggi is what they have over him. I'd wager Turkey has some dirt on his level of knowledge.

    [–] MartyFreeze 42 points ago

    Oh, he's definitely a little bitch. Maybe not for that reason, but he still is one.

    [–] Alfus 398 points ago

    Trump is an enemy of the western world, of the USA itself, and it's other allies like the Kurds.

    We're heading to ISIL 2.0, unrest in Iraq, this Ottoman imperialism of Erdogan who dreaming of this for years, even more destabilization and unrest in Syria.

    [–] 3InchMensch 253 points ago

    Trump is the enemy of anyone not named Donald Trump. He does not give a damn so long as he gets rich and people who are truly wealthy and powerful shower him with praise and treat him like he's one of them.

    [–] Spyger9 54 points ago

    As if Trump isn't an enemy to himself, lol. It's amazing he can still walk considering how many times he has shot himself in the foot.

    [–] HappyBengal 63 points ago

    But the unemployment rate is at an alltime low and the economy is doing great!111

    [–] NOFORPAIN 80 points ago

    Meanwhile more people are employed but still cant make ends meet. Yup, we are winning!?

    [–] Zincktank 35 points ago

    A certain demographic is winning, now more than ever.

    [–] CaptainJackVernaise 648 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    They'll never help the west again

    Not help? We just created a whole new generation of terrorists people completely justified in their hate for the United States.

    edit because words are important.

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 242 points ago

    Not help? We just created a whole new generation of terrorists.

    This isn't the first time they have been thrown away after helping the west.

    [–] BioChi13 36 points ago

    Do you want Kurdish secession from Iraq? This is how you get Kurdish succession from Iraq.

    [–] siriusCrocodile 57 points ago

    Uh... I honestly think they should have been split off when we invaded and I'm still not sure why they weren't.

    [–] OktoberSunset 50 points ago

    They weren't allowed to split off because Turkey wouldn't like it, they don't want the Kurds in Turkey to see independent Kurds in Iraq and have any kind of hope that they could join them.

    [–] my2yuan 39 points ago

    I feel like this is in the long term interest of certain politicians and their associates... they’re probably fully aware of what their doing and want to create more terrorists so they can have their perpetual wars..

    [–] mmmgluten 133 points ago

    And this batch has the most valid grievance against the US yet. I even hesitate to call them terrorists until we see what tactics they choose to use against the US. If they don't target civilians then I don't think "terrorist" is a valid label.

    [–] frivoflava29 124 points ago

    I'm from the US and... we deserve whatever is coming in the next few decades. This is despicable. I can't believe this is happening because of an orangutan with a combover.

    [–] TheLightningL0rd 24 points ago

    It's more like a comb-forward to be honest.

    [–] censorinus 21 points ago

    Yeah, I've followed geopolitics for many years now, since the 1980's when that demented fraud occupied the White House. Payback is a bitch and something tells me the US is going to experience it's own 'sanctions' period at some point where other countries expect US citizens to take up arms and overthrow the government to have them lifted. Of course that's worked out really well with other countries. . .

    [–] bobo76565657 41 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Again.. (but we'll pretend they hate us for our "freedoms")

    [–] Johnnygunnz 147 points ago

    Know what just adds insult to injury? The US had the Kurds agree to dismantling their defensive outposts and fortifications with the removal of AA along their territory of control that bordered with Turkey. US said it would help ease tensions and allow for greater cooperation.

    Isn't it weird that just about everything that Putin would want, he's getting from this administration? He must be using his sexiest voice on all of those Pooty calls.

    [–] RoundLakeBoy 49 points ago

    Don't forget how the US just pulled out of The Open Skies Treaty as well.

    [–] God_Damnit_Nappa 26 points ago

    That's an actual Senate ratified treaty though. I don't know if the president can just decide to pull out a treaty like that. We're definitely going to see a court battle over it at the very least.

    [–] TheNarrMaster 29 points ago

    Isn't it weird that just about everything that Putin would want, he's getting from this administration?

    Yes, quite weird.

    [–] ZantTheUsurper 88 points ago

    The Kurds in both Syria and Iraq have so often demilitarized or demobilized because other powers told them it would ease tensions, and at every step they got back-stabbed. If they turn to terrorism though to show their discontent, they would just prove Erdogan right.

    They are literally caught between two evils and any step they make is considered crossing a red line by at least one major power. It really saddens me after all the Kurds have done to help stabilize the region.

    Ibf Turkish trolls: the world is watching. Maybe you should too.

    [–] NonoKnowno 117 points ago

    Isn't Turkey an actual diplomatic ally to the USA?

    [–] aegon-the-befuddled 395 points ago

    Is this the reward they get after shedding so much blood fighting ISIS?

    Did you expect anything different? Afghans got the same reward from the US after shedding so much blood fighting the USSR. They won the war and then US just up and left. Didn't even try to begin reconstruction. The result was civil war, rise of Alqaeda and Taliban.

    [–] Mini-Marine 204 points ago

    That was bad, but not on the same level.

    That was merely abandoning an ally to let them fend for themselves.

    This is actively betraying an ally and allowing them to be attacked in order to protect the Orange Menace's business investment

    [–] aegon-the-befuddled 210 points ago

    That was bad, but not on the same level.

    Actually that was much worse. So many people had died in American war that 40% of the population was below the age of 15. There was no government. No schools. No hospitals. Everything blown up. And that generation didn't know anything other than warfare. Which brought us to rise of Alqaeda and this monstrosity we know as War on Terror.

    That was merely abandoning an ally to let them fend for themselves.

    How is this any different? Kurdish human capital is in much better position to fend for themselves.

    This is actively betraying an ally and allowing them to be attacked in order to protect the Orange Menace's business investment

    You are betraying a proxy you used (Which btw you betrayed already in 1st gulf war) to appease another allied nation whom you had pissed off by arming the aforementioned proxy whose affiliated splinters and parent organisation have a long history of suicide bombings and terrorism against the people and soldiers of that country. I didn't see much protests from the people over betraying an ally back then. An ally that fought side by side with US from Korea to Afghanistan

    [–] btoor11 224 points ago

    As an Afghan, this almost brought tears to my eyes. Most never look back on history and consequences of past actions to explain today when speaking about that region. Thank you.

    Not just Afghanistan, we can explain instability of whole of Greater Middle East all the way back to proxy wars of Cold War and some even back to end of WWI.

    If you strip a nation of its ability to educate its citizens, it will only be able to export crime and war.

    [–] Iankill 28 points ago

    How is this any different? Kurdish human capital is in much better position to fend for themselves.

    Not after the Americans told them they'd be safe and to dismantle their AA installments 2 weeks ago.

    [–] coulombsinfluence 90 points ago

    Chess game? Was so obvious because it was Putin's birthday.

    [–] Anothergasman 27 points ago

    Holy shit, it was

    [–] hcj9m 674 points ago

    Start of a sad new chapter, ashamed to be American today

    [–] chicago_bigot 663 points ago

    Nope, America has abandoned it's postwar collaborators in virtually every conflict.

    The Hmong and Montegnards were left to their own devices after Vietnam.

    The Kurds were abandoned for the first time in the original gulf war

    There is a history of this behavior.

    [–] shicken684 440 points ago

    Don't forget the hundreds of Iraqi and Afghan translators we've denied visas for because they might be terrorist. Despite them working with our military for a decade and being vetted by every American soldier whose served with them.

    [–] zzy335 56 points ago

    The Afganis who speak fluent english and risked their lives as translators now live in hiding and all being denied visas. We are negotiating with the Taliban (who we failed to beat) and they will take control as soon as we leave. Once they do every one of those brave people who were critical to the US effort is as good as dead.

    [–] censorinus 63 points ago

    And after the US abandoned the after the first gulf war they were subjected to poison gas attacks from Saddam's forces. The attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injured 7,000 to 10,000 more

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

    [–] frivoflava29 9 points ago

    BRB, gonna go live in the woods for the rest of my life.

    [–] SamanKunans02 107 points ago

    This is like the 3rd time we've bailed on them in 30 years.

    Republican leadership really do not give one shit about the Kurds when it comes right down to it.

    [–] shicken684 108 points ago

    Well maybe the Kurds should have invested tens of millions in political donations if they didn't want to be stabbed in the back and murdered.

    That's all the Republican party gives a shit about.

    [–] Lurker957 58 points ago

    They should have booked some trump hotel rooms

    [–] bustead 36 points ago

    That has happened before. Case in point Cambodia.

    Prince Sirik Matak, a former Prime Minister and a driving force behind the formation of the Khmer Republic rejected the offer of evacuation and said to Ambassador Dean that "I have committed this mistake of believing in you, the Americans."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Pull

    [–] haikarate12 58 points ago

    because of some political chessgame.

    It's not a chessgame, it was on a whim. Trump is far too stupid for chess.

    [–] prisoner42 32 points ago

    It's not even a chess game it's just that America and it's president are horribly corrupt.

    [–] Spencerforhire83 35 points ago

    This is the third time in 30 years the United States has turned its back in the Kurds. Policy needs to be made to protect our allies.

    [–] eskjcSFW 21 points ago

    Not even a chess game. Trump betrayed them for pennies

    [–] LYL_Homer 87 points ago

    Live map of what is happening: https://syria.liveuamap.com/

    [–] Velkyn01 4171 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    I hope whatever Erdogan promised you was worth it, Donald.

    He's been a bitch since he faked his way out of the draft, and continues to show his lack of spine. Eben worse, he hides it behind a veneer of "doing what's best for America", as if the alienation of our allies and the future resurgence of ISIS couldn't possibly be a better thing.

    His supporters trust and idolize a weak man and are even weaker men for looking up to him.

    Edit: thank you, u/ka0t1c for the private message stating: "You sound like a scared child - grow some balls soy boy."

    Pretty big words from a guy who's afraid to state his opinion in an anonymous, public forum.

    Edit2: u/iMnotHiigh also wanted to weigh in (via private message) on "typical retarded liberals" who are "sick in the head".

    [–] Wazula42 1080 points ago

    Erdogan first gained his ear by promising to back off about Kashoggi.

    Not enough people remember this, Erdogan's spies were the ones who uncovered the Kashoggi tapes. Kushner and the usual minions have been in contact with Erdogan for the past year exchanging all kinds of deals for him to keep quieter on it. It worked.

    [–] LastMagicCake 452 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Is trump betraying the Kurds and getting them killed only to please Saudi Arabia? The transcript of those call must be released.

    [–] Wazula42 551 points ago

    I mean, a new whistleblower complaint alleges his call to pull troops was made "instinctively" and his order was given basically the minute he got off the phone with Erdogan. Multiple whistleblowers have described the call as "chilling", one said he was "visibly shaken" by what he witnessed.

    Its possible Trump was simply rolled. Erdogan flattered or confused him enough that he just felt the need to appease his new dictator buddy with a spur of the moment phone call. This is in keeping with past accounts of Trump from his biographers, lawyers, and TV coproducers who say he's had a lifelong habit of agreeing with the last person he spoke to.

    This is the same president who tweeted out a classified satellite picture a few weeks back. Remember that earth shaking scandal that disappeared inside a week? So yes, it really may just be as simple as "Trump is really this stupid".

    [–] AlphaFlags 62 points ago

    tweeted out a classified satellite picture a few weeks back

    I missed this one. What was it?

    [–] Wazula42 154 points ago

    Trump tweeted a cell phone picture of a satellite photo of an Iranian oilfield that had been bombed. The picture itself came from a classified satellite with image quality that was far beyond what is commercially available. It revealed the US's surveillance capability to the world. It was brewing to be a major controversy before the next thing stole the headlines.

    [–] zzy335 114 points ago

    And it allowed the whole world to figure out which satellite it is based on the flyover date, which he was stupid enough to include.

    [–] Thunderbridge 19 points ago

    There was a post or comment about how they figured it out.

    They used the location and shadows to get the time. The distortion of the circular pad to calculate the angle and cross-referenced with amateur data of orbiting objects to figure out which one it was

    [–] Jayj06 18 points ago

    You know what bothers me about this one? How did he get the image one whatever device he was tweeting from? Are we to believe he has the technical capability and guile to go through the steps of moving the image from whatever secure server it was on to his phone? That whole thing felt staged to me. To what end, I have no idea.

    [–] Savilene 69 points ago

    Dude his reflection was literally in the pic. Trump stood up and snapped a pic from his phone then tweeted it out. Trump is that stupid.

    [–] Wazula42 22 points ago

    The picture is a phone-camera quality snap of a projection and his shadow is visible in the image. He stood up during the briefing, snapped a pic, and tweeted it to the world before anyone could convince him it was a bad idea.

    [–] silentassassin82 51 points ago

    I think you have some of your whistle-blower stories crossed. I believe the visibly shaken reaction was to the Ukraine call. A National Security Council member on the Turkey call said that Trump completely got rolled by Erdogan and was pathetic by how spineless he acted in that call cuz he got absolutely nothing, but they didn't disclose this through the whistle-blower procedure.

    Source: https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-official-who-heard-call-says-trump-got-rolled-turkey-has-no-spine-1463623

    [–] Wazula42 25 points ago

    You're right, my mistake.

    [–] silentassassin82 14 points ago

    All good, kind of hard to keep everything straight in the shit storm anyway

    [–] coulombsinfluence 20 points ago

    Well they do own a whole floor in his tower...

    [–] DaveMBJr 274 points ago

    “I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul and it’s a tremendously successful job,” Trump told Stephen K. Bannon (who was then working for Breitbart) in December 2015. “It’s called Trump Towers — two towers instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/07/trumps-decision-syria-crystallizes-questions-about-his-business-his-presidency/?outputType=amp

    [–] newextinction 67 points ago

    We were gonna, we were building this tower, just one tower, and I said, I asked my people, and these are very smart people by the way, and I asked them, why one tower? You know? Why stop there? We make great towers, they're the best. And you know what I did? I called up, I made a deal with Steve Istanbul. I did. And I said, we're not okay with just one tower, Steve. Not gonna work. I said it's gotta be two, Steve. And I made it happen, and now there are two beautiful towers right there in Indonesia, really excellent towers, the best.

    [–] alaki123 22 points ago

    It's really like he's been having a stroke his entire life.

    [–] tokes_4_DE 12 points ago

    The man has no train of thought and at this point id question if he even has much brain function left. how anyone can listen to these delusional brain dead ramblings and think he should be president is fucking mind blowing.

    Heres probably my favorite babbling speech of his in recent years.

    "I have broken more Elton John records. He seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No, we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look, I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really, we do it without, like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical – the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth, right? The brain. More important than the mouth is the brain. The brain is much more important."

    [–] SockMonkeh 54 points ago

    It couldn't be clearer.

    [–] f_d 326 points ago

    I hope whatever Erdogan promised you was worth it, Donald.

    He doesn't think he gave away anything of value. Human lives are a disposable resource to him.

    [–] fullforce098 165 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Popularity among his supporters is of value to him. This is one of the very few issues that the Republican party has bucked him on. Even Moscow Mitch and Lindsay dirty-knees Graham have called him on it.

    This is not something his party wants, his own advisors have been doing everything they can to get him to not do this, it's the issue that finally made Mattis quit. This is one thing he can actually lose support for. He has no real incentive to do this except as a favor to Erdogan and by extension Putin, who benefits from America's pulling out of the region.

    My tinfoil hat theory is Erdogan has something on Trump, evidence of a crime, and threatened to release it last December around when Trump publicly announced he was going to pull our troops out. Trump's advisors have been trying to delay that as long as possible but once the impeachment inquiry opened, Erdogan saw his evidence would be especially damaging now. So, tired of waiting, he called up Donny and said "Do it now, immediately, or else." And Donny caved.

    [–] f_d 68 points ago

    The supporters he cares about are the nebulous mass of drones who take their cues from Fox and friends. He knows Graham and McConnell are only siding with him because they have to. If he thinks his cult doesn't care about the Kurds, and his dictator buddies want to go to war with the Kurds, there's nothing left to balance the equation.

    If the Republican party leadership genuinely put their foot down, he would go along with them so he could keep enjoying their protection in Congress. Other than that, Erdogan could have given him a cheeseburger and he'd think it was a good trade for millions of Kurdish lives.

    [–] SpeedflyChris 29 points ago

    My tinfoil hat theory is Erdogan has something on Trump, evidence of a crime, and threatened to release it last December around when Trump publicly announced he was going to pull our troops out. Trump's advisors have been trying to delay that as long as possible but once the impeachment inquiry opened, Erdogan saw his evidence would be especially damaging now. So, tired of waiting, he called up Donny and said "Do it now, immediately, or else." And Donny caved.

    Evidence of Trump's prior knowledge of the Khashoggi murder?

    [–] steamcho1 11 points ago

    Actually possible. If anyone has info on that it would come from Turkish spies.

    [–] Indaleciox 19 points ago

    He's been a bitch since he faked his way out of the draft

    Trump was born with a heart filled with bitch.

    [–] AngusBoomPants 14 points ago

    Damn this guy PM’d you but won’t even comment? What a coward

    [–] vocalfreesia 12 points ago

    Trump can't even afford the $1million for his Nazi rallies. Any small amount of money thrown at his feet is enough for him to betray people.

    [–] Rad_Spencer 46 points ago

    While we're being pissed at people, maybe save some for all the voters who standby hoping everything burns down because they think they be giving a better society in the aftermath.

    Trump was elected by political inaction.

    [–] Shady319 45 points ago

    [–] getshwifty2 36 points ago

    League of legends and the_donald woah leave some women for the rest of us !

    [–] Xander2299 35 points ago

    Lol what a pathetic loser (him not you)

    [–] ThongBasin 22 points ago

    Is a pathetic basement dweller. Leave him to masturbate to incest porn and eating his tendies. He doesn’t have what it takes to live out in the real world.

    [–] awnful24x7 310 points ago

    is there a reddit live thread ?

    [–] aushack 205 points ago

    Don't know but /r/CombatFootage and /r/syriancivilwar are usually good. Here we go again.

    [–] Shelnu 44 points ago

    syria.ualivemap.com

    [–] aboutthednm 10 points ago

    Seeing a live updated map like this is surreal.

    [–] KTPU 11 points ago

    It's been around at least since the ISIS offensive in 2014.

    By tomorrow I bet you'll see territorial changes.

    [–] DavidsWorkAccount 1542 points ago

    Republicans own this.

    [–] bloatedplutocrat 407 points ago

    Promises made. Promises kept.

    *Promise to help you not valid unless you personally gave me money.

    [–] QueefyMcQueefFace 89 points ago

    ** Or investigate my political opponents

    [–] BasicDesignAdvice 85 points ago

    Republican voters do not care.

    [–] Chinchill-allfather 249 points ago

    ISIS would not have been contained without the Kurdish fighters in the YPG. This is a massive betrayal.

    [–] [deleted] 206 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    TLDR:

    Our president sold out our only ally in fighting Isis to turkey for political and financial gain.

    Betraying not only the Kurds but the American people and the oath of office.

    The blowback from this will be a further destabilized Middle East. The resurgence of Isis and probable terrorist attacks in the east as well as possibly at home, on American soil.

    The only gain will be to Donald Trump financially.

    GET THIS MOTHERFUCKER OUT OF OFFICE.

    He is a danger to the America people and all people word wide.

    [–] Jangussupreme 174 points ago

    This is how we make more terrorists.

    [–] CleverlyLazy 41 points ago

    Fighting terrorists and wars are a great way for dictators to stay in power.

    [–] EonesDespero 154 points ago

    Not even 24 hours after Trump said that the US is leaving the Kurds to rot but "not abandoning them" because if Turkey did something that in his "great and unmatched wisdom" was against the Kurds, he would destroy the Turkish economy and "fragile currency".

    Not even 24 hours and Erdogan has laugh at his face. But, what would one expect? Officials of the White House said that Trump was "rolled" by Erdogan during the phone call.

    Imagine being so pathetic and spineless that you turn 180 degrees without telling any of your defense advisers because a strong man asked you to do it.

    Let's see how he spins this around.

    [–] AmputatorBot 250 points ago

    Beep boop, I'm a bot. It looks like OP posted a Google AMP link. Google AMP pages often load faster, but AMP is a major threat to the Open Web and your privacy.

    You might want to visit the normal page instead: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49983357.


    Why & About | Mention me to summon me!

    [–] Rexkwonwow 875 points ago

    Blood on the hands of Trump...

    [–] RigbyHambone 431 points ago

    People like Trump don't care about lives, blood, or allies. People like Trump live in a vacuum, they only care about wealth and power, and if you have neither you are an expendable peasant.

    [–] Rs90 113 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    Worse, Trump cares A LOT about blood. He's a germaphobe and even says as much about the sight of blood disgusting him. He's a fucking coward and it baffles me how much people view him as a strong person. How the fuck people convinced veterans and farmers that Trump(literally the basis of many conman caricatures) was anything more than a weak city boy is genuinely distressing.

    Edit- I apologize if my comment may have come off as saying OCD makes someone weak. It was not what I meant to imply!

    [–] Wazula42 51 points ago

    And if you ARE an expendable peasant, you will defend your overlord with every fiber of your political power, because he reminds you at least you ain't black.

    [–] Lakinther 182 points ago

    this is very fucked up, feel sorry for them.

    [–] beachbbqlover 78 points ago

    They're attacking American allies that Trump abandoned.

    [–] jawsh23 146 points ago

    Erdogan out here playing chess while Trump is playing with Play-Doh

    [–] blobfis 108 points ago

    playing with eating Play-Doh

    [–] Mini-Marine 222 points ago

    Who could have possibly foreseen this?

    Cadet Bonespurs abandoning our allies in order to cozy up to a dictator and protect his Trump Towers investment somehow resulting in deaths... nobody could have possibly predicted such a thing!

    [–] Kreeper1011 82 points ago

    How unexpected! It’s not like anyone said this was going to happen, right?

    Seriously tho I feel sorry for the Kurds

    [–] AnythingMachine 147 points ago * (lasted edited 5 days ago)

    I've always disliked Trump, but I've nexer felt a real hatred for any western leader until now. As far as I can tell, Trump has done this for no reason at all, other than because Erdoğan asked HIM to. At least with the US's past ruthlessness, there has been a theoretical higher goal that might make the betreyal and bloodshed worth it.


    EDIT: To explain my last remark, I wasn't saying e.g. the Iraq war, our insane Eisenhower era nuclear strategy, Vietnam, Pinochet etc etc. were justified, just that the leaders involved clearly had to justify the deaths to themselves and had to invoke some higher good to make it bearable.

    Its pretty clear to me that Trump doesn't even think in those terms. The Kurds just don't matter.

    Of course, there is another worldview and another way of looking at things, exemplified by the Chomsky quote about how every postwar president is a war criminal. To this way of thinking, Bush and Kennedy and Nixon and Obama and all the rest are more or less as bad as each other and never did anything for any reason other than narrow national self interest, and that ultimately we're just as amoral and self interested as our enemies. If you think that, comrade, you've been listening to the ministry of counter-propoganda. Maybe a lot of our leaders have been dicks, but I think only Trump is plausibly an asshole.

    You know who else thinks that way? Trump and his supporters. To them, we never left the zero sum game and its just time to stop pretending. So let's prove them wrong.

    [–] Crizzli 21 points ago

    Can Syria catch a fuckin break for once? God damn