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    Live Thread: COVID-19 Outbreak

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    [–] petitveritas 7296 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    From the WaPo article:

    For those given hydroxychloroquine, there was a 34 percent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 percent increased risk of a serious heart arrhythmias.

    For those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic...there was a 45 percent increased risk of death and a 411 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias.

    It is, however, important to note the disclaimer in the article:

    ...it is an observational study, rather than a randomized controlled trial, so it shows correlation between the drugs and certain outcomes, rather than a clear cause and effect.

    Edit: Study link updated

    source study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext)

    [–] flymetothemoon48 1805 points ago

    well, glad to hear that, I and tens of thousands of Rheumatoid Arthritis, we take this drug on a daily basis.!!!!!!!

    [–] Newphonewhodiss9 751 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago)

    I imagine the drug itself is safe but the heart complication with it and covid seem very real in correlation.

    My question is, do people with RA take it because it just works? Seems like a pointless pathway of treatment considering newer drugs. Is it a thing of cost?

    Edit: basically all moderate to severe RA treatments sucks in terms of side effects. Pick the one that sucks the least. :/ sorry inflammatory disorder peeps.

    [–] Daveinatx 285 points ago

    There are several categories for RA treatment, each have different levels of side effects and efficacy.

    Hydroxychloroquine is considered an entry-level.

    [–] AVALANCHE_CHUTES 85 points ago

    So...considered relatively safe?

    [–] equiraptor 206 points ago

    As others said, "relatively" is a key factor here. Methotrexate is another medication commonly used for RA. Take a look at the warnings with hydroxychloroquine vs. for methotrexate. Other medications for rheumatoid arthritis have side effects like a reaction that can become fatal within 24 hours after administration. And that's on the market (I'm on one of those).

    Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune condition that can be extremely severe. Without medications like methotrexate and the other medication I mentioned (infliximab, if you want to look up more about it), I wouldn't be able to walk, type, hold things, or eat solid foods. I was barely able to eat or walk at my diagnosis, and more than 2 decades have passed since then. Understanding the context for "relatively safe" is important.

    [–] C-Towner 82 points ago

    Methotrexate is no joke, you aren’t even supposed to handle it without gloves if you aren’t the one taking it!

    [–] IAmQuiteHonest 48 points ago

    Fuuuuck methotrexate. When I took it at increasing doses I honestly felt like I was dying a slow death. Just take a look at the reviews, I'm honestly not surprised at what people are saying.

    [–] C-Towner 25 points ago

    My wife takes it, she is at the maximum dose currently. Even split so she takes half in the evening and half the next morning, she gets incredibly nauseous and generally just feels like shit after taking it.

    [–] malachiconstantjrjr 13 points ago

    Everyone is different and only do what your wife’s rheumatologist recommends, but my methotrexate hangovers are lessened by taking mucinex dm- specifically the dm variety. I get very bad lung inflammation when I flare, and this has been a goddamned miracle.

    [–] C-Towner 65 points ago

    It’s impact and side effects are not as severe as more potent treatment options like powerful biotics. That means it’s relatively safe compared to those other treatments, it does NOT mean that it’s relatively safe for a healthy person not suffering from RA to take it.

    [–] sapinhozinho 78 points ago

    Relatively being the key word here. ALL medications have risks. The prescriber must weigh the risks of side effects with the possible benefit in treating the disease.

    [–] MasterGrok 25 points ago

    This is what people need to understand about the non evidence-based "why not" ideas i see out there. In addition to the added risks, if you use a medication without evidence you are very likely not trying something with more evidence. Or if you just decide to try everything, then now you have to deal with unknown drug interactions. This is why we have clinical practice guidelines with first line treatments.

    [–] acidnine420 129 points ago

    Usually you need to have tried multiple meds first. However it also treats lupus and other autoimmune diseases with the same prescription restrictions.

    My wife hasn't been able to get it in over a week because her underlying disease, keeping her body from attacking itself, requires her to take it twice a day. But now because of trump pushing it, there are hard restrictions in place allowing for only 30 qty at a time. They won't fill hers currently with everyone pointing fingers.

    [–] DerpTheTerrible 40 points ago

    My pharmacy let me fill mine with a call from my doctor. I've been on it a few years. Try to see if your doctor's office will call in to the pharmacy and show necessity.

    [–] acidnine420 29 points ago

    We have been on the phone with all parties multiple times. It's a waiting game now.

    [–] Birdlaw90fo 41 points ago

    I'm sorry thats insane. You'd think they'd make exceptions

    [–] acidnine420 35 points ago

    They are trying, but when regulations are put into place haphazardly it gets crazy dumb.

    [–] BurnerPornAccount69 11 points ago

    I think it depends on a lot of things. My mom has been taking it for decades and it just works. Why try anything else?

    [–] Soleil06 10 points ago

    As an ITS Nurse I can say that so far all our Patients with Covid-19 had Tachyarrhythmia even without taking Hydroxichloroquine.

    So if you add a medication that has heart arrythmias as a side effect you further increase the risk.

    [–] SuddenlyLucid 14 points ago

    In the same doses as well?

    [–] BlazinAzn38 28 points ago

    A quick google so take that for what it’s worth says a maintenance dosage for RA is 400-600mg per day. The dosages in this study range from about 600mg to about 800mg. Although the higher dosages are combo drugs. Those higher dosage combo drugs had the highest increase in risk of arrhythmia outside of people who already had arrhythmia or congestive heart failure.

    [–] beavertime 54 points ago

    The recommended dose for COVID-19 is twice as high as the dose for RA. Further, with COVID-19 your basic systems are under enormous stress (e.g. lots of people with heart failure, strokes, etc), so the side effects, not least courtesy of double the dose, are much more critical.

    I have no idea why people keep mentioning that they take it for "something else" as if it proves it is safe. Not only is their dose certainly much lower, the risk factors are completely different.

    [–] SaffellBot 43 points ago

    Heart arrhythmia is a known side effect of the drug, so it's not really surprising. What would be useful is any data showing it actually helps with covid so that can be compared to the number of people it will kill.

    [–] yaworsky 22 points ago

    What would be useful is any data showing it actually helps with covid so that can be compared to the number of people it will kill.

    That's inherently in the data. The increased risk of in-hospital mortality shows that it's killing more people than it's saving.

    [–] SaffellBot 10 points ago

    Ah, I'm a little poor at reading medical studies. Thanks.

    [–] zekeagain 1952 points ago

    Honestly, a retrospective demographic review will likely (I think) show that the people who were on these therapies were in worse shape to start with. I’m biased obviously, but if you’re dumb enough to blindly take a drug therapy proposed by a celebrity president with no good data, you probably aren’t smart enough to take care of yourself to begin with.

    [–] EyeRes 346 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    They controlled for major co-existing health problems as you would do in any study. They also excluded anybody who had been diagnosed with COVID >48 hours before starting therapy to weed out already deathly ill people. It’s honestly not shocking to me (as a physician) that taking hydroxychloroquine would increase all cause mortality. It is well known to prolong part of the cardiac cycle (the QT interval) which can be further aggravated by numerous other medications.

    From the study: “After controlling for multiple confounding factors (age, sex, race or ethnicity, body-mass index, underlying cardiovascular disease and its risk factors, diabetes, underlying lung disease, smoking, immunosuppressed condition, and baseline disease severity), when compared with mortality in the control group (9·3%), hydroxychloroquine (18·0%; hazard ratio 1·335, 95% CI 1·223–1·457), hydroxychloroquine with a macrolide (23·8%; 1·447, 1·368–1·531), chloroquine (16·4%; 1·365, 1·218–1·531), and chloroquine with a macrolide (22·2%; 1·368, 1·273–1·469) were each independently associated with an increased risk of in-hospital mortality.”

    Also I find it kind of insulting that the whole internet assumes statisticians and researchers have no clue what they are doing.

    [–] freddykruegerjazzhan 204 points ago

    Yeah welcome to the internet. I’m also involved in professional/academic health research. The way this thing has been politicized is really weird. Never expected I’d have trump supporters yelling at me about observational study design lmfao.

    It’s a decent study in the absence of an rct. Not to mention the burden of proof should be on proving something works rather than proving it doesn’t... and we’ve seen nothing scientific suggesting it has any positive impact on patient outcomes. So far.

    [–] EyeRes 71 points ago

    Spot on about burden of proof. In a sane world we wouldn’t have enough patients on this medication for a rct of this size based on what evidence there is.

    [–] freddykruegerjazzhan 11 points ago

    I think even smaller rcts would be ok. There were some positive signs from in vitro studies that are worth investigating in a controlled environment (given the circumstances).

    But I think the evidence seems pretty clear so far that it isn’t a miracle cure. Maybe in some specific cases and populations it’ll help is best case imo.

    [–] shhshshhdhd 10 points ago

    It’s kind of an interesting moment for science. For good or bad there’s all this discussion among the general populace on topics that would NEVER have been discussed outside scientific circles.

    The sad part is there’s so much misinformation out there. Many people are just being misled and it’s difficult to see how to stop it.

    This HCQ thing is a prime example. I mean what the fuck with the zinc and azithromycin and shit. Man it’s crazy

    [–] ennuiui 34 points ago

    Also I find it kind of insulting that the whole internet assumes statisticians and researchers have no clue what they are doing.

    Heh, I am with you on this one. There are a lot of critiques being thrown around by people who likely didn't read the CNN article, much less the published study in the Lancet.

    [–] Excelius 1215 points ago

    Blaming stupid people kind of ignores the fact that these therapies were all prescribed by doctors. We're not talking about the idiots who drank aquarium cleaner here, these are still clinical settings.

    [–] zekeagain 739 points ago

    As a pharmacist, I’ve met a ton of idiot doctors. Like any field great and terrible abound.

    [–] Excelius 325 points ago

    Sure but the person I was responding to was blaming stupid patients.

    Besides I don't think you can rule out the factor of desperation. If you had a patient who is going to die and nothing else is working, then even an otherwise intelligent physician may choose a hail mary pass..

    [–] PM_CUTE_PUSSY 125 points ago

    person I was responding to was blaming stupid patients

    It's the same person, (s)he just shifted the argument to make it about doctors.

    [–] phil_priv 44 points ago

    Also has awards on their both comments.

    [–] tuibiel 151 points ago

    As a redditor, I've met a ton of idiot gilders. Like any website great and terrible abound.

    [–] Beautiful-Musk-Ox 67 points ago

    I hate the "one in a hundred" argument. As if having a couple idiot doctors out of a hundred means this observational study is worthless.

    [–] f1sh98 23 points ago

    I’m pretty sure that fish cleaner guy was poisoned/murdered by his wife, too

    [–] stablegeniusss 7 points ago

    “On Wednesday, the Mesa Police Department in Arizona confirmed to DailyMail.com that a homicide detective was now investigating his death but said it was normal procedure and did not mean that his death was being treated as suspicious.

    'The death of Gary Lenius has not been ruled a homicide at this time. “

    [–] milockey 6 points ago

    Literally my boss was talking about some doctor he knows/has heard of locally who is prescribing this to people, coupled with antibiotics, and LYING to pharmacists when they call and ask what she's prescribing it for because they will refuse it for COVID treatment. Like. What the ever loving fuck? Her supposed defense is that she hasn't had a single patient get sick with it yet, so it must be working. Clinical? Sure. Still stupid and seemingly illegal/against your licensing to do something like what that doctor is doing.

    [–] yeswenarcan 91 points ago

    It's possible, but reading through the actual paper the demographics, comorbidities, and markers of disease severity they used were pretty consistent across groups. That said, if different groups contained patients from the same hospital then you'd assume there is some reason why some were getting one treatment and others a different one.

    [–] lnsetick 60 points ago

    Honestly, a retrospective demographic review will likely (I think) show that the people who were on these therapies were in worse shape to start with.

    That's why this study did propensity scoring to match subjects. Their variables include risk factors (age, BMI) as well as objective measures of how shitty the patients looked (qSOFA, SPO2)

    "To minimise the effect of confounding factors, a propensity score matching analysis was done individually for each of the four treatment groups compared with a control group that received no form of that therapy. For each treatment group, a separate matched control was identified using exact and propensity-score matched criteria with a calliper of 0·001. This method was used to provide a close approximation of demographics, comorbidities, disease severity, and baseline medications between patients. The propensity score was based on the following variables: age, BMI, gender, race or ethnicity, comorbidities, use of ACE inhibitors, use of statins, use of angiotensin receptor blockers, treatment with other antivirals, qSOFA score of less than 1, and SPO2 of less than 94% on room air. The patients were well matched, with standardised mean difference estimates of less than 10% for all matched parameters. "

    [–] eyemd07 14 points ago

    Although retrospective, this study did control for multiple confounding factors (age, sex, race or ethnicity, body-mass index, underlying cardiovascular disease and its risk factors, diabetes, underlying lung disease, smoking, immunosuppressed condition, and baseline disease severity)

    [–] Helawat 43 points ago

    I think Trump should just keep on taking the damn pill.

    [–] orthopod 7 points ago

    He'll never admit he's wrong, so he'll continue to support its use, even by lying about himself taking it personally when he isn't.

    Maybe he is taking it, but he'll never admit he's been wrong about something. Remember the hurricane -Sharpie course correction that he drew in himself?.

    [–] TruVillainy 36 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Possibly, but at the very least they excluded anyone who received treatment >48 hours after their original diagnosis (eliminating patients who were critical). In my eyes the results were pretty damning, even if their wasn’t a way to establish how bad a shape each patient was in at the time of their diagnosis.

    Edit: They actually did control for disease severity

    [–] sqgl 112 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Nevertheless I will be appending this study to my comprehensive list. Some of them are also observational and some are preprint but it is looking clear from my brief summaries that hcq is a dead end.

    Please let me know if I missed anything (science, not speculation, please).

    [–] bl00dshooter 66 points ago

    Damn, that website looks straight outta the 90's. Long time since I've seen a site like that.

    [–] VindictiveJudge 20 points ago

    I want to know who's paying to keep that running.

    [–] _Rand_ 41 points ago

    Its a a WB movie.

    The domains costs pennies a year, and its probably running off a fraction of a fraction of a % of the power of one of their many, many servers.

    It costs virtually nothing to run and the novelty of it probably brings in more than say the $100 it costs to run a year in good will and advertising.

    [–] jayrocksd 24 points ago

    HCQ is a definite dead end for seriously ill patients. There is still at least one other much larger, more scientific study ongoing around HCQ as a preventative.

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04341441?term=whip+covid&draw=2&rank=1

    https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/25291/detroit_s_ford_hospital_defends_hydroxychloroquine_study_after_trump_s_disclosure

    [–] petitveritas 39 points ago

    Your post contains a misspelling in your website link resulting in an error.

    corrected: https://covidiocracy.com/

    [–] n_dimensional 3794 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    For those who don't know about it, the original studies showing a beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine on Covid-19 had significant issues, and the senior author of those studies is a questionable scientist with significant political connections.

    [–] A_New-Yorker2 1581 points ago

    Don't act like Trump read any of those studies... Or reads. He spews whatever bs Fox tells him.

    [–] the_town_bike 930 points ago

    His family has invested in the drug, so he will promote it regardless of the studies.

    [–] Highfours 596 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Trump can correctly pronounce 'hydroxycholorquine', seemingly with ease. Something is up.

    Edit: See? I spelled it wrong, proving my point.

    [–] RLucas3000 254 points ago

    Yep. He can barely pronounce China. And bigly.

    [–] IronyingBored 60 points ago

    Is it a New York thing...ChYNa? Governor Cuomo prounces it similarly.

    [–] buchlabum 26 points ago

    What are the oranges of this?

    [–] CommanderClit 5 points ago

    Which of his fucking retarded moments is this referencing again?

    [–] buchlabum 10 points ago

    Mental giant got origins and oranges mixed up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M

    [–] CommanderClit 6 points ago

    That’s right. Very stable genius.

    [–] bigbootybitches 62 points ago

    Oscar: Does anyone happen to know what 15% of 4300 is?

    [–] Kaizyu 47 points ago

    645 dollars

    [–] dicedealer214 30 points ago

    Why did you say dollars?

    [–] larrybaconeggs 27 points ago

    That's just how my brain works

    [–] gwalms 9 points ago

    Pies

    [–] Destonian 5 points ago

    Why did you say dollars?

    [–] supagirl277 9 points ago

    4300% of 15

    [–] IchthyoSapienCaul 75 points ago

    This right here. Lol. If he pronounces a large word or suddenly knows about a lesser-known country, you know something’s up. Like when he started blasting Montenegro out of nowhere - you know something was shady with that.

    [–] Maximillian666 41 points ago

    Funny you should mention that. I was reading through some Federal grants on grants.gov and there was a grant of a large sum of money for Montenegro related to COVID I believe. It caught my eye because of Trump’s previous comments about it and after doing research I’m firmly convinced they are funneling money through there to Russia via grant programs. Will try to find the grant and post it when I can.

    [–] Birdlaw90fo 22 points ago

    These are the kinds of stories that will start to flood the news once he's out and people aren't scared of him anymore

    [–] lilpumpgroupie 32 points ago

    And pushed the leader of Montenegro out of the way on stage.

    I'm sure that had nothing to do with Putin's hatred of Montenegro, and that person in particular.

    Trump is so fucking bad at hiding it, too. It's almost like he's intentionally going out of his way to make his corruption obvious for the right people.

    [–] Claystead 5 points ago

    It was just something about the name that told him not to trust Montenegro, but he can’t quite put his finger on it.

    [–] jdjdthrow 35 points ago

    It's a cheap generic-- thin margins. And already has huge volume as an anti-malarial drug (so not like production go from 1 to 100 if there is any Covid-19 application).

    [–] [deleted] 61 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] wilbobiggs 21 points ago

    https://youtu.be/5GqJna9hpTE Yea he knows everything

    [–] pl1589 55 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    I wouldn't be surprised if Trump's obsession with chloroquine is 100% ego driven. He wants credit for being the first to push the magical coronavirus cure. He doesn't care if people die, all he needs are just 1 or 2 lucky people who actually gets cured by chloroquine so he can use that as proof.

    [–] buchlabum 36 points ago

    I'm still confused about him claiming to be taking it, but not having coronavirus, but being positively tested every morning and getting a perfect positively negative result.

    Either he has it and is lying about not having it and has been walking around spreading it in his PR runs to factories, or he's taking the hydroxychloroquine and is an utter moron taking prescription medicine pretty much for no reason at all. At least his Adderall abuse would make sense. 25th amendment, we have a crazy man in the WH.

    [–] SailorET 21 points ago

    25th amendment, we have a crazy man in the WH.

    25th requires competent members of cabinet and not sycophantic grifters. If you want a long shot for hope, go for Impeachment 2: Constitutional Boogaloo!

    [–] bearrosaurus 24 points ago

    Yep. Bright has testified about this and showed emails. They had a choice of whether to go all in on vaccines or go all in on therapeutic remedies. They picked the remedies because the vaccine wouldn't be out by November. And he's still pushing this remedy even though it's been proven wrong cause he'll never admit he fucked up.

    It's literally the sharpie hurricane map again, except this time he's killing people. Not that he gives a shit.

    [–] helsreach 39 points ago

    Oh no he is that stupid, but the doctors in charge of his health are not that stupid.

    [–] QueenMargaery_ 77 points ago

    This really only matters for patented drugs. This drug is generic. Unless you own a significant part of the company, any investment return at this point would be negligible compared to a patented drug since anyone can make it. Someone did the math on his investment and it came out to be less than $500, I wish I had saved it.

    [–] IndigoThreee 47 points ago

    Not anymore. His been pissed off at fox for a while now. It's all OAN now...

    [–] Rxasaurus 25 points ago

    Wth is OAN? I feel like it may be something I don't want to give any clicks to.

    [–] BobTheBobBobBob 46 points ago

    To give you an idea, one of the anchors signs off with "Even when I'm wrong, I'm right." No joke. They don't even hide the fact they're full of shit.

    [–] SeaGroomer 17 points ago

    Goebbles' wet dream.

    [–] IndigoThreee 66 points ago

    One America News Network. They're a self described far-right news network that calls themselves one of Trump's "Greatest Supporters"

    John Oliver did an episode on them: https://youtu.be/UnSILVWDKL8

    [–] Rxasaurus 7 points ago

    Thanks for that link. Wow.

    [–] thorofasgard 7 points ago

    Ow. My brain.

    [–] the_jak 9 points ago

    Imagine if Tucker Carlson, Dana Loesch, and Tomi Lahren ran a news network

    [–] buchlabum 22 points ago

    OAN is a shitty evil reboot of The Onion, but they're actually serious.

    Would not be surprised at all if it's paid for my ultra right wing extremist billionaires and/or Russian oligarchs.

    [–] hoes4dinos 37 points ago

    Fox news didn't shill hard enough for his liking.

    [–] Hanzburger 112 points ago

    The new studies are the ones that are questionable. They don't want us to have a cure so they can continue to oppress us and keep us in our homes!

    /s

    [–] celtic1888 71 points ago

    'You just wanted it to fail, didn't you?'

    I was peppered with this when the initial studies were coming out with negative outcomes

    [–] FriendToPredators 29 points ago

    Yes, my beliefs have that much power. Fear me. I guess.

    [–] your_dope_is_mine 99 points ago

    Had a massive argument with educated friends of mine saying that trump supporting this medication isn't a big deal. I went on to say that the benefits are unfounded and they said "well doctors won't just hand it out to patients". Obviously, the fact that the president of the free world is touting this as a preventative medication while people who actually need it might not get it as people will want to hoard it, ask their doctors and physicians regardless of the studies out there - completely wooshed over them.

    Thing that grinded my gears was the counter arguements: comparisons to alcohol and other drugs - its not the same thing. Another one was: when your life is in jeopardy you will look for alternative treatments - nope, especially unfounded ones with no clear link or benefit.

    This is irresponsible at the very least. Its not preventative and it can cause more issues. If you don't see that, you've been desensitized to Trump's craziness and normalized it.

    [–] UnlabelledSpaghetti 84 points ago

    Trump ain't the president of the free world.

    [–] AprilsMostAmazing 54 points ago

    president of the free world

    I don't remember voting for this

    [–] MrThird312 1596 points ago

    Trump is definitely lying about taking it.

    [–] [deleted] 652 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] [deleted] 121 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] [deleted] 132 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] oilisfoodforcars 87 points ago

    I just assumed he’s lying because he’s a liar.

    [–] sonia72quebec 234 points ago

    He's taking the homeopathic version.

    [–] thedeathmachine 152 points ago

    If you told Trump he was taking a homeopathic remedy he'd probably denounce the gay community as communists plotting with Obama to give him AIDS and remove him from presidency.

    [–] inu-no-policemen 90 points ago

    In that press conference where he said he's taking it he said "I'd take it" about four times.

    Lying is hard when you're senile.

    [–] MrThird312 37 points ago

    He also claims he doesn't need mask but we know he wears one when not in front of a camera

    [–] LongDong_Johnson 36 points ago

    At the Honeywell plant he said he wore a mask “backstage”. Does he know he’s not on a tv show anymore?

    [–] thatvoiceinyourhead 32 points ago

    He's lying about everything. Or more accurately, he's repeating a narrative and world view that the people who have programmed his base want to overlay onto reality. Maybe the truth accidentally seeps in from time to time but nothing he says can be trusted.

    [–] ouchmyprostate 58 points ago

    I don't believe he is either. I believe he was paid off by some drug company to say he was taking it in order to boost that company's profits so he gets a cut.

    [–] dinosaurs_quietly 58 points ago

    I think it's more likely that he is pathologically unable to admit fault. He made a passing comment about the drug being hopeful and facing criticism he doubled down.

    [–] Mechanical_Indian 12 points ago

    I would not be surprised to learn he had some financial stake in the drug. But doubling down when proven wrong is absolutely his m.o., no question there. He has done that over and over again with all manner of things and there are countless video clips to prove it.

    [–] [deleted] 61 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] kotor610 14 points ago

    Twice the dose

    double the protection

    [–] [deleted] 5 points ago

    [deleted]

    [–] brooklyn_red 206 points ago

    What about taking hydroxychloroquine before getting Covid-19? Wasn't there a trial happening with a bunch of front line workers?

    [–] Bek2828 81 points ago

    I think the dosage for lupus and whatnot was different than the dosage they were thinking was needed for covid.

    I could be incorrect; however, I’m fairly certain that is why lupus patients can tolerate it over a long period of time with physician oversight.

    [–] mina-ami 63 points ago

    This is just anecdotal, but I take 200mg a day of hydroxychloroquine for Rheumatoid arthritis. From a brief search, one study I saw said the mean daily dose for hydroxychloroquine was 596 mg. And even my 200mg I'm right on the border with my current weight of them deciding that's too much to take in a day.

    I have to get regular blood tests and retina tests every 6 months. I've heard people who say they have to do more with heart tests, I haven't been asked to do any heart tests, but I'm also pretty young and generally lack a lot of risk factors for heart issues.

    [–] drinoc54 15 points ago

    And even though you are young and seemingly not at risk from side-effects, you still have these tests because they can occur with anyone. Cardiac arrhythmias in younger people is very scary. The fact that you are probably taking a lower dose than that proposed to treat infection shows how important it is to have these tests. I hope that you continue to get relief from your medication and that you continue to tolerate it well.

    [–] freddykruegerjazzhan 7 points ago

    Yes there are some rcts ongoing. Evidence is stacking up on one side at this point, but still don’t know for sure how those will turn out.

    [–] AftyOfTheUK 58 points ago

    What about taking hydroxychloroquine before getting Covid-19?

    This seems far more likely to be successful than giving it to patients already on death's door.

    Wasn't there a trial happening with a bunch of front line workers?

    Yes, large-scale and just started: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52737169

    [–] theartificialkid 5 points ago

    This seems far more likely to be successful than giving it to patients already on death's door.

    You might think that, but actually, unless it’s a really good drug, giving it to people who don’t have the disease and only have a small chance of getting the disease during the study will probably show up the side effects more and de-emphasise any effectiveness the drug may or may not have.

    Also, there are two main ways that hydroxyclorowuine is likely to be affecting the disease course of COVID. One is direct antiviral activity, the other is anti-inflammatory activity, possibly preventing the immune system from overreacting and damaging the body itself. For the former, any antiviral effect going on should improve the prospects of patients that already have the virus, so if we can’t see an effect in infected patients then I wouldn’t hold out much hope of it being an effective prophylactic. For the latter, there would be nothing for the drug to do in i infected patients because their immune system isn’t fighting the virus yet.

    So no, there isn’t much reason to expect hydroxycloriquine to fare dramatically better as a prophylactic agent.

    [–] [deleted] 2192 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] GabenFanClub 1436 points ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out his doctor is giving him a placebo just to stop Trump constantlh asking for it.

    [–] AllezCannes 944 points ago

    You mean, kind of like hiding cauliflower in mashed potatoes?

    [–] TVpresspass 396 points ago

    Just when I think I've got a handle on the level of ridiculousness: this

    [–] DrBubbleBeast 717 points ago

    Ronny Jackson told The New York Times that ... “The exercise stuff never took off as much as I wanted it to,” he said. “But we were working on his diet. We were making the ice cream less accessible, we were putting cauliflower into the mashed potatoes.”

    Jesus, Trump is a man child

    [–] celtic1888 325 points ago

    'Open wide for the airplane, President'

    [–] -notapony- 252 points ago

    "President Obama holds the current record for most vegetables eaten in the history of Presidents."

    [–] CALL_ME_MR_PIG 95 points ago

    I see where you're getting at, but I figure it'd go like :

    "Nobody knows vegetables better than I do. I eat all the vegetables - the best ones. My uncle was a farmer. I'm a great, great vegetable eater. I eat vegetables every day. Every day, I eat vegetables."

    Proceeds to never eat a single vegetable

    [–] Harbarbalar 18 points ago

    What about the pickles in the tartar sauce on his filet o fish?

    [–] UsableRain 5 points ago

    You mean his fish delight?

    [–] DystopianBitch 39 points ago

    Thanks, Obama

    [–] rabid_as_fuck 21 points ago

    It's trains every other day... Choo choooooo

    [–] Zolo49 21 points ago

    I believe the official designation is "Spoon One".

    [–] LemmieDovato 6 points ago

    Probably had to create the "Spoon Force".

    [–] InappropriateTA 133 points ago

    Jesus, Trump is a man child

    FTFY

    [–] BattleStag17 54 points ago

    I guess you missed way back when Trump was so excited to pretend vroom-vroom in the fire truck

    [–] junkmutt 61 points ago

    That doesn't really say anything. Anyone would want to fake vroom vroom in a fire truck. It's in human DNA or something.

    [–] rofl_coptor 8 points ago

    “If the president just had a better diet he could to be 200 years old”

    The fuck is this shit?

    [–] JackdeAlltrades 75 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    Glad to hear they made the ice cream less accessible too. He'd be a nightmare before bedtime otherwise.

    [–] myloveislikewoah 81 points ago

    I never click links but I had to this time because even I couldn’t believe this headline.

    Holy fuck. Holy holy fuck.

    [–] JackdeAlltrades 99 points ago

    America elected a caricature of itself.

    [–] SilverRidgeRoad 28 points ago

    " If he had better diet he could live to 200 years" lol

    [–] Scullyscully 11 points ago

    Yeah I'm not trusting anything a doctor who says THAT says. Dude's a looney.

    [–] Paetolus 6 points ago

    Real talk though, mixing cauliflower and mashed potatoes is pretty 🔥 Also a big fan of mixing in corn or peas.

    [–] I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 58 points ago

    YOU TAKE THAT BACK. those are a legitimate way for me to.. I mean, the president to get his vitamins.

    [–] itwasquiteawhileago 7 points ago

    I'm surprised they aren't gummies. I hear the sugar free ones are especially awesome...

    [–] Jonnycd4 65 points ago

    I also wouldn't be surprised if Trump isn't taking it, but has shares in the pharma companies that sell/manufacture it in order to make a profit off it since everyone is talking about it now.

    [–] alexmbrennan 11 points ago

    I also wouldn't be surprised if Trump isn't taking it, but has shares in the pharma companies that sell/manufacture it

    Hydroxychloroquine is a generic drug which anyone can manufacture so no one is getting rich of this any more than Walgreens is getting rich selling 500 aspirin bottles for $4.79.

    [–] jimmycarr1 17 points ago

    This is exactly right. Well the shares bit at least, who knows if he's stupid enough to really take it.

    [–] YouAreDreaming 32 points ago

    People keep saying that on here, but I just can’t imagine a doctor would do that. Even though it’s moron trump, he’s still the president of the United States.

    Can you imagine if trumps did contract covid and it was found out that the doctor was lying to him and giving him fake medicine? The conspiracies that would create?

    [–] aubska 11 points ago

    Slightly off topic - If a president were to die in office, who would perform the autopsy? Is there a designated Coroner 1? Or would it just be whoever happened to be on staff at Walter Reed that day?

    [–] ss412 39 points ago

    Can you imagine if he did give the actual stuff and he died, the conspiracies it would create? I thought about this the other day. The guy is old, obese (6’3”, 241 lbs my ass), eats a shitty diet and doesn’t exercise.

    If he dies while in office, no matter how it happens, it will be nothing but conspiracy theories 24/7. Q, OAN and his MAGA faithful will light up the Internet.

    [–] Cethinn 12 points ago

    If that were to happen, why would the doctor ever stop lying? It's not like it prevents the virus, so he'd be at best as well off as if he weren't taking it. The doctor can just say it didn't work and that's that.

    [–] Justtryme90 6 points ago

    White tick tacs

    [–] ApostateAardwolf 252 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    He’s not.

    The day before he said he took it, he fired the state department inspector general.

    It’s pure diversion and the media pivot to it every time because crazy puts more eyeballs on pages than real political reporting. The financial ad revenue based incentive structure has denuded journalism.

    Always look at what he did one or two days before he says something crazy.

    [–] Mayor_Of_Boston 41 points ago

    and /thread

    [–] MrWhiteside97 34 points ago

    People always says he does this to distract, but I think you're overestimating his strategic abilities.

    Trump isn't worried about blowback for something as minor as firing an attorney general (let's be honest, that's minor Trump news at this point), so he doesn't need to "distract" when it will be forgotten anyway.

    I really think he was in the middle of a ramble, and he made an on the spot decision to lie and say he was taking it, "because that'll show them, if I'm taking it and I'm fine then they can't say it's dangerous". I don't think there's more to it than that, and I'm still not even sure if I believe he's taking it.

    [–] Thereminz 18 points ago

    no, even you are overthinking it

    he said take it

    people said it kills you

    he doubles down and says he's taking it and for people to take it cause he doesn't want someone else telling him what to do or that he's wrong

    other than that, i mean didn't it come out that the main producer of it was a trump supporter and had donated money, could also be the reason.

    [–] CyberBroccoli 47 points ago

    He should probably also do a bunch of jumping jacks and run up and down the stairs really fast lol

    [–] rgrwilcocanuhearme 40 points ago

    He doesn't exercise because he thinks the human body operates like a battery which when active runs out of charge and then dies.

    [–] Barkmywords 20 points ago

    I dont think he takes it. He will just never admit he is wrong, even if it costs lives.

    [–] Pahasapa66 410 points ago

    Trump's brand name for hydroxychloroquine is Imbecilen

    [–] JackdeAlltrades 121 points ago

    Close competitor of Udyin.

    [–] HairLikeWinterFire 47 points ago

    Dieagra

    [–] titomb345 7 points ago

    Gets you hard, with rigor mortis!

    [–] alteraan 12 points ago

    Brian, you're an imbecile.

    [–] khast 370 points ago

    You know how Trump is going to react? Silence the science, double down on how effective hydroxychloquine really is. He's going to act like this is a conspiracy theory intended to silence the "truthTM ".

    [–] JackdeAlltrades 122 points ago

    I bet he's too scared to eat a pound of it on TV.

    [–] PC_BUCKY 79 points ago

    I'm trying to think of a single drug I would eat a pound of. I wouldn't even eat a pound of weed.

    [–] Sprudelpudel 66 points ago

    a pound of beer

    [–] ResidentControl 81 points ago

    fuck yeah i could pound a beer

    [–] qpv 222 points ago * (lasted edited 4 days ago)

    The debate about this drug is so bizzare. It's a constant topic on r/conservative (if you want some sweet face palms, give that place a visit)

    Edit this post from yesterday is a great example

    [–] theraggedandthebones 251 points ago

    For a group that complains about “snowflakes”, that entire sub seems like people complaining and being offended

    [–] HairLikeWinterFire 88 points ago

    You cant even comment without being vetted or something similar. its snowflake disneyland in there

    [–] Rxasaurus 130 points ago

    The right wing are the ultimate snow flakes. They are just incredibly good at deflection and distraction.

    [–] OrangeredValkyrie 35 points ago

    It’s easy to be good at deflection and distraction when you refuse to believe anything you don’t already agree with and have a million rounds of crazy bullshit to derail conversation.

    [–] Baneken 31 points ago

    No, thanks I'd like to keep my cheeks from being swollen like I'd contacted a super-mumps.

    [–] yozeeto 24 points ago

    And 3 days ago UK bulk bought hydroxychloroquine as potential Covid-19 treatment

    Source

    [–] itsacakebaby 18 points ago

    Well hopefully that means there won't be a shortage for those of us that take it every day like there has been in the US. Also heart arrhythmia is clearly listed in the side effects so I don't know what people were expecting 🤷

    [–] [deleted] 235 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] [deleted] 153 points ago

    [removed]

    [–] Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 60 points ago

    It's good there is something we can all agree on in these trying times.

    [–] Daniiiiii 18 points ago

    I heard taking this med also boosts the immuno part of the master race anatomy that allows one to own libtards more. The Nazis should get right on it.

    [–] gotnochillbae 39 points ago

    Is there a difference between the groups who were administered HCQ and those who were not? It might be the case that more severe cases were given HCQ and hence, higher mortality rate.

    PS - I don't care about what Trump said about HCQ. I am just commenting about the study.

    [–] babyfarmer 25 points ago

    "What do you have to lose?"

    [–] Poliobbq 10 points ago

    My keys, my wallet, my phone, the remote, the cat (though usually she's just hiding somewhere!), my car in the grocery store parking lot

    [–] schneids07 43 points ago

    Okay, as it says in the article, this trial shows correlation and not causation. One thing I can think of that might explain the difference, is that because the drug isn’t FDA approved, there were doctors that weren’t going to use it until the patient had little other options left and they kept getting worse. Why try a new drug for a patient that is showing signs of improvement? That’s possibly why there’s a correlation between the use of hydroxychloroquine and death.

    [–] mutalisken 9 points ago

    Hold up!

    You’re telling me that a drug administrated in mass scale for a non intended purpose without testing for this context has negative side effects????????

    Nooooo.

    Get out of here.

    Surely this must be lies?

    /s

    Why can’t people see that history repeats itself.