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    ARedthorn

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    [–] "Unlike male circumcision, female genital mutilation also inhibits sexual pleasure." Sorry, have you ever been a circumcised man? ARedthorn 2 points ago in MensRights

    The breakdown of types of FGM in this article are... only loosely correct.

    Type 1a is removal of the clitoral hood only Type 1b is removal of the clitoris Type 2a is removal of the labia minora Type 2b is removal of the labia minora and clitoris Type 2c is removal of the labia majora and clitoris Type 3a is the sealing of the labia minora Type 3b is the sealing of the labia majora Type 4 is everything else

    1 is nowhere near equivalent to the removal of the testicles- 3 is. 1a is (roughly) equivalent to circumcision, and 1b is roughly equivalent to damaging or cutting the glans off entirely (which happens sometimes by accident during circumcision).

    Basically, they're taking the worst forms of each type and saying that they're the whole thing.

    [–] The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy ARedthorn 54 points ago * (lasted edited 15 days ago) in FeMRADebates

    Welp... Here we go. (Long post ahead).

    Time Magazine Article on the CDC Numbers, and the actual report itself:

    In 2010:

    1.1% of women reported being raped

    1.1% of men reported being made to penetrate

    In 2011:

    1.6% of women reported being raped

    1.7% of men reported being made to penetrate

    5.6% of women reported other sexual violence

    5.3% of men reported other sexual violence

    4.0% of women reported experiencing partner violence

    4.8% of men reported experiencing partner violence

    14.2% of women reported experiencing partner abuse

    18.0% of men reported experiencing partner abuse

    Time Magazine Article on an APA Study of men age 18-23. Actual Study During the study, men were asked if they had ever been raped, and 1.4% said yes, with 95.5% describing a male aggressor. They were then asked if they had ever had unwanted sexual contact, and 43% reported they had - with 95% reporting a female aggressor.

    17.2% reported sexual touching (aka, sexual assault)

    4.3% reported attempted sex (aka, rape)

    21.5% reported completed sex (aka, rape)

    18% described experiencing sexual coercion by force.

    31% described experiencing sexual coercion by threat.

    26% described experiencing unwanted sexual seduction (aka, harassment).

    Note that they didn't mention these events when asked if they had been raped - only when they were asked if they had ever had sex against their will.

    That study doesn't exist in a vacuum. RAINN and 1-in-6 have neatly compiled a variety of studies, which all show that by age 18:

    A 2005 CDC study found 16% had been sexually abused.

    A 2003 study found 14.2% had been sexually abused.

    A 1996 study found 18% had been sexually abused.

    A 1990 study found that 16% had been sexually abused.

    A 1997 study found that among men and women who had experienced sexual abuse as an adult or child:

    ...16% of men recognized it as abuse.

    ...64% of women recognized it as abuse.

    As if rape isn't bad enough, sexual exploitation and sex trafficking strongly affects boys and men as well... to the tune of a 2008 John Jay College of Criminal Justice study finding that half the sex trafficking victims in NY are male, with many of them exclusively serving female clients... yet, of the 25 shelters to respond to the study, only 4 provide services to male victims. Juvenile Justice article and End Slavery Now fact sheet.

    I have a bunch more links, but these are the oldest, and most strongly peer reviewed. I have several others, primarily focusing on teen and college age males that have been published, but are still too new for me to feel comfortable pushing them out just yet. Generally speaking, any viable data takes years just to properly sort through, plus a year under peer review to be considered valid... hence why the most recent CDC data (just released last month) is for 2013.

    All in all, when we use terms like rape, that tends to come with a lot of social baggage that means men don't report - and often don't even consider themselves victims of the thing... but when we ask them about unwanted sexual acts - rape, just don't call it that - suddenly the numbers equalize between the two genders.

    [–] Swim tricks ARedthorn 9 points ago in funny

    I don't think it's meant to keep your hair dry... but contained, and minimize resistance going through the water.

    [–] How do I say no? ARedthorn 8 points ago in AskMen

    So... there are a couple ways to look at this, as I see it.

    Even if they didn't have the conversation, she says she thought they were exclusive.

    1- Either she didn't think it was exclusive (and what she did was ok, but now she's lying about the relationship status) or she did think it was exclusive (and what she did wasn't ok, and needs a better explanation than she's giving). In either instance, he's justified in thinking something shady is going on, and not being ok with that.

    2- Maybe they weren't officially exclusive, but if they both thought they were exclusive, then one of them behaved differently than exclusive... Saying "but it wasn't official" doesn't cut it.

    If it was exclusive, she's betrayed that trust. If it wasn't exclusive, but that's an option, then it's his choice as much as hers, and this event may affect that choice. If it wasn't exclusive, and she's not interested in making it exclusive, then she didn't do anything wrong, but this isn't what he wants, and he's welcome to walk on that alone.

    [–] Study gave mock trial jurors identical descriptions of domestic violence incidents, changing only the gender. Jurors were far more likely to find a man guilty of a crime than a woman. ARedthorn 10 points ago in MensRights

    Full props to u/imnotmrabut for the full version.

    They did study female on male violence as well...

    Even better, the study references several others, with, among other things, this gem:

    26-33% of gay men, 32-44% of lesbians, 9-29% of heterosexual men and 20-35% of heterosexual women have experienced IPV.

    They do specify violence, not just abuse- so they're restricting to physical abuse. Broadening to emotional abuse provides the skew we're more familiar with where female abusers outnumber male abusers by a long margin.

    They also note that experts - even IPV professionals - will make differing judgements about severity depending on both the gender of the abuser and gender of the victim.

    [–] Access to Sex as our major Social Currency - and what it means ARedthorn 12 points ago in FeMRADebates

    Incels as a class (ie, anyone who is INvoluntarily CELibate)...no. They don't feel entitled. They feel the opposite. Some may... and perhaps you're referring to the incel subreddit, which is more a sociopolitical forum than a class of people. I feel no desire to comment on them, as I haven't spent any time there.

    Just as those who are poor may complain about the excesses of, say, Donald Trump's pure gold hotel room or Joel Osteen's refusal to lift a finger for others... without feeling entitled to anything they haven't earned. They can complain, and then still go work 14 hour shifts at their minimum wage job. They can complain, and then still not be assholes for complaining. They can complain about entitlement without being entitled.

    Which is the thing. Incels who complain about "Stacies" (dunno why you picked that name, or if not you, whoever)... are often complaining about her entitlement... because if you really want to see true sexual entitlement... turn down or ignore a hot girl sometime. I have on a few occasions in college... and again during that brief self-destructive period I got my sense of affection from strippers. I've never seen anyone in my life more offended.

    [–] Access to Sex as our major Social Currency - and what it means ARedthorn 6 points ago in FeMRADebates

    They may not be equivalent, but translating a foreign experience into a familiar one is a stepping stone to empathy.

    [–] Access to Sex as our major Social Currency - and what it means ARedthorn 12 points ago in FeMRADebates

    Good point. I think the author is conflating those two, but your nuance is important here.

    [–] Access to Sex as our major Social Currency - and what it means ARedthorn 9 points ago in FeMRADebates

    I don't think you have to adhere to socialism to see the Labor Theory of Value as valid.

    In fact, any decent capitalist would see it as a significant part of value calculation, as it's what determines his costs, and a profitable capitalist will keep an eye on his Labor Value like a hawk, to ensure that his Market Value always exceeds his Labor Value.

    [–] Access to Sex as our major Social Currency - and what it means ARedthorn 9 points ago in FeMRADebates

    I think this deserves a deeper dive, but it definitely resonated for me.

    [–] New, from Pulowski Preservation... ARedthorn 6 points ago in gaming

    Fallout 0 is too real, man.

    [–] Rape, Feminism, and MRAs. ARedthorn 7 points ago in FeMRADebates

    This. So very very much.

    Imagine a 13yo boy sexually abused by a teacher who's heavy into BDSM.

    Imagine he normalizes his experience just so, thanks to her getting a slap on the wrist, and society generally telling him he should consider himself lucky.

    Think having his first ever sexual experience, with someone who had total control and authority over him in life as well as bed isn't going to have a lasting effect... just because we told him it shouldn't? Just because he tells himself it shouldn't?

    I don't get people sometimes.

    [–] Rape, Feminism, and MRAs. ARedthorn 10 points ago in FeMRADebates

    So, first off... for what it's worth, I may have a teeny (read:big) bias on this. I'm a male sexual assault survivor. My abusers were women. I now provide support to other men as best I can.

    Getting traction on the issue is... tough. It's actually one of the reasons I've stopped hanging out in r/mensrights and similar subs and forums.

    Every so often, you'll see a new study that's really useful, worth adding to your references and resources toolkit... and once in a very rare while, you'll see an article on someone trying to open a shelter or change a law, and that's very uplifting.

    But 90% of the conversation happening on this issue is a news story about a specific individual case pointing the double standard or lack of support... under the guise of raising awareness. In a community that's already aware.

    If we want to raise awareness, we need to do it elsewhere... and we need to seem like we're doing something, not just bitching about the problem... So, I've taken the fight to my own growing circle of contacts, and shared my story, and begun building a support network for those who hear it and share theirs.

    On the other side of the coin here, this is also why I'm not a feminist. Feminism has been mainstream for longer than I've been alive, and still hasn't done anything about the problem. Hell, only a fraction of the movement even acknowledges the problem, and they're not the part with a strong voice. They've done a lot of good, yes... and I support that. They still have more work to do... and I support that. And if all they claimed was to be pursuing the betterment of women, I'd have no problem with that.

    But when they claim to be seeking equality, it's hard to forgive 70 years of inaction on behalf male victims solely because they're male, when half of that time has been inaction as the single largest, most mainstream movement for "equality" on the planet.

    The MRM isn't doing much better, as you say, but at least they're paying attention, and have the excuse of being very young- new at all this, and lacking the funding or political momentum for sweeping reform.

    [–] What is your most horrifying sexual experience. NSFW ARedthorn 33 points ago in AskMen

    It was rough for a while, and I've got scars... but at this point, it's more like it's fuel for me to do something about it, instead of an active source of pain... if that's not healing, I don't know what is.

    And... it's slow going, but it is changing. The 2nd shelter in the US is about to open it's doors, my group has gotten enough traction we've been offered a meeting space, and asked to do outreach work with other abuse-support groups... there's reason for hope.

    Sorry to take this to such a serious-and-dark place... but I tend to take every opportunity to raise awareness I can... so, also thanks!

    [–] What is your most horrifying sexual experience. NSFW ARedthorn 55 points ago in AskMen

    /nod.

    I tried to talk about it early. Learned that was a bad idea for all the reasons.

    This was over a decade ago now. I've had a chance to heal, and now provide support for others.

    So, all in all, I ended up in a good place, I guess?

    [–] What is your most horrifying sexual experience. NSFW ARedthorn 200 points ago in AskMen

    I was sexually abused as a child. Between that, and a religious upbringing, I was pretty reserved and uncomfortable about sex when I went to college.

    This didn't end well for me. There were a couple girls in my extended group of friends who crossed the line all the time- one thought it was hilarious seeing how easily she could make me uncomfortable.

    Most horrifying though? Getting drugged. I don't know about you, but beer doesn't normally cause tingling, partial paralysis and an 8-hour long erection. I was so far out of it I needed help standing up, much less walking back to my dorm. She seems to have thought I was just wound up too tight and needed help overcoming my inhibitions, and this was the way to do it. It's not blood and shit, but not being in control of my body while she did whatever she wanted with it was also horrifying.

    [–] Why Men Are the New Minority in College ARedthorn 6 points ago in FeMRADebates

    Not sure what you're going for here.

    I mean, if it's what linking that sub usually means, you can either explain yourself so we can have a rational, reasonable debate, or...

    Frankly, I can't finish that sentence without violating sub rules, so... the or is "we're done here."

    [–] Why Men Are the New Minority in College ARedthorn 18 points ago in FeMRADebates

    So, here's where things get tough to debate... so, if you're willing to bear with me, I'm going to come at this 2 different ways.

    1- in my experience, this question is a trap, because it usually ends with the claim that either I don't understand feminism, or they weren't real feminists, because feminism is about equality.

    Well, according to textbooks, conservatives are about small government so people can be free to do what they want without government control or interference. Conservative is, by textbook definition, anti-authoritarian.

    So, when the entire Conservative party in the US passes legislation centered around controlling people's lives... do you think they're acting in line with the goals of conservativism?

    Maybe not... but when, in your experience, all conservatives are authoritarians... I think the textbook definition stops mattering.

    And it would be awfully dismissive of me to say that you shouldn't talk smack about conservatives because the people who are trying to regulate your access to bathrooms aren't "real" conservatives.

    Same. Thing.

    Now, maybe you weren't going there. Given this forum is typically pretty even handed, I'm assuming not... in which case, mea culpa for putting words in your mouth.

    On to... 2- I don't know what I think. But I know they thought they were being good feminists.

    The girl who drugged and raped me was aggressively progressive... and definitely self-proclaimed feminist... and she thought she was helping me overcome my inhibitions... freeing me from sexual repression. That she violated my consent to do so didn't even register with her.

    Because although feminism had taught her the importance of her consent, it had never taught her the importance of mine.

    3- Feminism has been mainstream for 50 years or so. This doesn't mean it's work is done. But it does mean that they've had 50 years to do anything, anything at all for male victims of abuse... and haven't. I mean this- I really do... I know they mean well when they campaign over "Violence against women"... but their good intentions don't matter when it colors the debate in a way that reinforces gender norms and shuts guys like me out from getting any support.

    Studies going back to the 70's, with sample sizes in the hundreds of thousands have shown that abuse isn't a gendered issue... yet there are more shelters for women in my city than for men on my continent. If feminism was about equality, something has gone TERRIBLY WRONG HERE.

    The term rape culture was invented by male prisoners to describe their experience with prison rape and how society handles it. They invited women to that conversation, and now no longer have a place in it, with prominent feminists like Mary Koss (head of the CDC's sexual violence research division) saying that drugging a man and forcing him to penetrate you against his will is a lesser crime, or not a crime at all- unwanted touching and a misdemeanor at worst.

    50 years. In that time, it seems like they've made 40 years of progress for women (thanks to some notable setbacks) and 0 for men. That's not equality.

    Now, if feminism wants to claim "We're here to fight for women's rights"... I'm all on board. We need that. But then, we also need movements for men's rights, LGBT rights, minority rights, etc. But you don't get to claim you're for everyone AND tell me I don't deserve equal support for my abuse.

    And whether or not that's something you would ever say to me (in the absence of any evidence, I assume you're a good person)... It is something feminism has said... in words, but more importantly, in 50 years of inaction.

    [–] Why Men Are the New Minority in College ARedthorn 40 points ago in FeMRADebates

    So, this is particularly interesting for me... I attended a similar school. Formerly an all-girls school, it went co-Ed in the 70's to be eligible for state funding. Currently 68% female... when I was attending, they proudly proclaimed 70%.

    Very liberal, progressive, feminist... And was it ever a shit-show for me. Having been sexually abused as a kid, I was pretty sexually reserved, and girls on that campus found my reservations- and my reactions to being randomly groped- hilarious... so, you know... sexual assault on a regular basis. Culminated with a girl drugging and raping me to "help me get over my inhibitions"... for which my roommate congratulated me, my girlfriend dumped me, and the campus counsellor ignored me.

    This was back in 2001-2006... I can't imagine now, with rhetoric the way it's gone the last decade.

    I don't mind admitting feminism has done a lot of good... but that school is why I'm not one. I've seen, first hand, the harm it has done. Because I'm such an optimist, and willing to grant leniency for good intentions...

    I'm willing to assume that harm was unintended- but still real, and still unacceptable. Feminists willing to take that criticism, and try to course correct, are better than alright in my book... but I'm still not seeing enough of them to be cool with the movement as a whole.

    [–] Does Female Genital Mutilation Have Health Benefits? The Problem with Medicalizing Morality - Brian D. Earp ARedthorn 5 points ago in FeMRADebates

    Right. Circumcision is not considered a treatment for penile cancer. It reduces risk by reducing the overall volume of flesh for it to start in, but even if penile cancer starts in the foreskin, it doesn't stay there. By the time it's identifiable, foreskin removal is considered insufficient as a treatment.