BestGarbagePerson

My boyfriends grandmother survived holodomor. She was imprisoned and tortured for "stealing bread" for her 9 children, some number of them died I can't remember how many. She was raped in prison as well. After she came out she was never the same.

Language. Math. Public speaking. Diplomacy. Surviving on my own. So much more.

Right but there also happen to be about 10,000 other gods, and none of those other ones have been proved as well.

So don't think that absence of evidence of absence is proof of existence.

Hornets are satan spawn. Wasps are peanuts compared. I've gotten rid of a half dozen wasp nests and another half dozen yellow jacket nests. Hornets are the only ones that stung me, and those fuckers will kill people just for being near their nest.

Friend of mine is a beekeeper and he saved a hive today that was swarming at a taco bell. He literally just walked up to it with a box and scooped it up. No gear, just bare hands. Bees are friends.

Confirm that it looks like my stalker.

That is not the definition of murder.

Not even close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Define murder please.

Holy shit. Not that long ago either. People need to remember its still an uphill battle for women's equality worldwide.

The illiad and the upanishads as well as the quran and the tzolkin and the dao de ching are also historical fiction.

Also, it’s not an ad hominem because why else would you refer to the Bible or any text with such dismissive language?

That's not dismissive that's what it is. If you have faith it is real then that's your choice, but faith is the definition of belief without evidence.

I don't want to argue this with you. If you are offended then I apologize. It's only my personal opinion about an ancient book of fiction.

A taboo cannot cause harm and putting “taboos are bad” to the test always results in backpedaling

You are welcome to your opinion, but it has no proof.

adultery was illicit sex in general because it is illicit sex in general

Actually this is circular logic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

never came here out of genuine desire to discuss anything, you only came here brigade. Your language betrays it.

Citation needed. I have not insulted or ad hominemed anyone but am willing to apologize for hurt feelings for me stating plainly what I believe about a book of fiction. Please do not attack my motive.

Good night to you too.

What do you mean by result? Sounds like a weasel word to me.

Yes, just like how feelings about things take precedent over facts? :/

We already define killing something you can easily walk away from as murder. You only have the right to kill anyone in order to protect ones immediate body from physical harm.

The zygote's implantation is a result of the consent to the man

It is not. It's a risk. Aka a chance. Of which less than half of fertilized zygotes succeed. Only 30% succeed, that is if they are fertilized in the first place. They do it on their own. They have a chance of succeeding.

just as a crash is the result of driving on the wrong side of the road.

Sex is not a crime. False equivalency. Sex is like driving on the right side of the road, and someone jumps into my car to carjack me, and because there was a risk of that happening, that equal consent for that to happen.

You cannot separate the two completely if you're a fertile woman

Yep. Just like you cannot separate the risk of being groped or mugged if I walk on a public sidewalk. So what exactly do you mean? Zygotes burrow on their own, there is nothing a woman does that is criminal that forces that, or coerces that. Again, sex is not a crime for which you can remove peoples bodily rights. Do you wish it to be a crime? Do you think sex is like some form of fetal kidnapping? Pregnancy is like illegal imprisonment of a fetus?

You're taking an action that is proven to often result in a consequence, ergo, you consent to that consequence.

Risks of legal actions do not equal consent to only consequences you, personally u/GayNerdsFighting approve of.

BTW. You're other comment....you said sex is not a legal act? WTF. So sex is a crime? It's a criminal act to engage in consensual sex?

A fetus is independently acting on the mother as a person. No person even innocent get's a de facto right to put another at risk and harm without consent, even if the last resort to stop them is death. Lethal force is always justified if it is the only way to stop immediate threat and harm, of which pregnancy always is. And it's either consentual or not consentual, which women have the equal rights as all other people to decide. Even if it's just a fetus.

What the heck kind of statement is this? What are you even trying to say?

What exactly are you complaining about from your book of mythology that you choose to believe in?

Also do you know what whataboustism means>

It is a historical book

The definition of faith is belief in the absence of evidence. Don't tell me you believe in the literal bible and the world is only 8000 years old.

Also a lot of the bible is in fact, just a bunch of opinions and personal views.

is part of a religion that absolutely despises the idea of magic

I'm not going to argue with you about the definition of magic, but to me it's anything that promises or guarantees paranormal, mythological activity to be real, and encourages recitation of phrases as promise of unworldly power.

So that's it, I'm done with that.

you just want to rile up emotion and taunt out anger.

Nice ad hominem but no. I don't want to argue this with you. I recommended a book if you want to see my view on your own time.

You do realize that your parents belong to you as much as you belong to them, right

No, fact of the matter is women were property in the bible. There is no question of that.

You can split hairs on that as much as you like but that is what they are, and that is the purpose of marriage. Marriage only existed as a means of proving hereditary ownership of the land, which wasn't understood as neccessary by all cultures. Only ones that decided that pure bred sons of your own not from any other man were the way to prove that right of ownership. Once again, read the book I suggested. I could suggest more but I don't want to seem overwhelming.

Thou shall not commit adultery.

Nope. Adultery was only for having illicit sex with your neighbors slaves and wife. It was legal to rape your own slaves.

Hooray, a screed on the supposed virtue of hedonism. Pass

The entire book explains how these taboos actually hurt all of society. So yeah. It's not hedonistic. Its the burden of them on society.

Glad to know you've decided to close your eyes.

u/GayNerdsFighting already did.

No, he had a premise, that was it. No proof.

Why are you referring to sexual reproduction in placental mammals like it’s a kind of hookworm?

That's the biological fact of pregnancy for female humans. Not all mammals reproduce this way. Did you not know?

Btw, you're calling it that, not me. I'm only stating the fact. Please explain to me why consent with a man to have sex is consent for a zygote to burrow into a uterus. Those are two different things with two different people. Or do you not consider the fertilized ovum a different person?

The former drive exists to ensure facilitation of the latter occurs.

Meh, this is what is called an appeal to nature fallacy, and I should have stated so sooner. Almost all mammals perform infanticide or even in the case of marsupials, spontaneous abortion. That's because every fertile mother can live to breed another day. But that's besides the point.

Again, the definition of non-elective, the literal definition, is live-saving. Not "reproductive saving."

Pregnancy is an elective because you can choose to not do things that result in pregnancy just as you can choose to do them.

You want to pick a fight with the dictionary and biological facts feel free. That's not a fight you are having with me then. That's with reality.

I was merely remarking on the volume of blood you mentioned, assuming it had something to do with menstruation.

You were off by quite a large amount. Are you a woman? When was the last time you lost a half quart to a quart of blood?

I wouldn’t mind it being illegal. It’s hardly necessary. Same with private house cleaners.

Lol. I'm just going to bold this because it's absolutely hilarious and ridiculous. I'm sorry but this is absurd.

Sounds like red tape oversight been a reason for prostitution to be legal. If anything, it should be made even more illegal as there is nothing that is stupid about anti-prostitution laws.

Once again, nice premise. Would be nice if you had some argument to back it up. No offense but is that all you got?

The law defines the human rights and the common law responsibilities that we all irl have to suffer for. The due process that you take for granted it appears, which defines exactly thus, your responsibility to be or not to be, the property of someone else or your body and private life to be the public domain.

If you want to redefine these terms as they are understood in the entire developed world, based on your perception that they are not ethical, then you have to redefine them for everyone and provide intellectual rigor therefore for it.

Thus if you say sex, a legal act, a legal unregulated act, equals a de facto responsibility of your human rights to be removed as long as a zyogte is there, then you mean this must also be true for everyone else, in all other situations. I don't think you want that. Nor could you even begin to try to define it this way. The truth is you think zygotes deserve a superior right over women's bodies that no other person has. Which is a violation of equal protection under the law.

I don't even think you know what due process really means.

Oh yes, the demand for men to lay down their lives to the point of death for the sake of their wife just as a guy who was nailed to wooden planks laid down his for the Church

Hey u/G_Wonder, I'm not forcing you to have these beliefs. If you don't like them you don't have to believe in them.

Whataboutism btw.

Yeah the Bible was totally all about marriage just being purchasing a woman as livestock. /s

Yes it was. I highly suggest btw, you read some books about it, historical books, not just your book of spells.

But here it's even in the 10 commandments: wives are equal to oxen and slaves, property of your neighbor:

"You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor"

What part in the 10 commandments bans raping your female slaves?

Btw, I could go on a lot more but I think we will just agree to disagree.

There's a book called "You will die: The burden of modern taboos on society." I highly recommend it. By a ph.d.

You do realize that compelling and forcing someone to suck a dick when they don't want to (for any reason in the whole wide world) is rape, right?

Yes, but that's not even close to the reality I posit. If you can only have it legal to be an independent contractor you could never force someone to work as a sex worker.

You have to suck a dick or you don't get your foodstamps, section 8 or unemployment." That's rape.

First of all that would never happen. Ever. And you suffer from an unbelievable delusion about what sex work is, and sex negativity.

But anyway, this isn't the prostitution sub

Hey I didn't force anyone to slut-shame in the pro-life thread. I just responded to it.

Pregnancy isn't elective

The definition of non-elective is "live saving" no woman ever needs to be pregnant in order to keep living. That's ridiculous.

The majority of abortions are the result of consensual sex between two unrelated adults.

Abortions are the result of being pregnant. Pregnancy is either consented to or not consented to. Sex is not consent to a zygote burrowing into the lining of the uterus. That is an independent action by the zygote itself, that no consent is made for by de facto consent to sex with another person.

you're putting yourself in a position

Risks of legal actions are not consent to outcomes of those actions that only you approve of. You cannot force anyone to undergo something that was a risk of a legal activity without their continuous consent.

you're putting yourself in a position to become pregnant just like someone driving on the wrong side of the road is putting themselves in danger of being hit

Driving on the wrong side of the road would be a crime, you would have no right to your own body as you would be in the process of recklessly and criminally breaching tort. No one has the right to self defense while in the middle of a crime. Is sex a crime then?

Indeed they are, you can elect to either have sex or not.

Define how sex is consent to be pregnant which is consent to giving birth (Excactly what kind of birth are you saying is de facto consent?)

Zygotes (fertilized ovums) burrow on their own into the lining of the uterus. 70% of fertilized ovums fail to implant btw. Please explain how consent is formed by this independent action of a zygote.

Isn’t that quite literally the entire purpose of life as hardwired into the DNA of everything with the capability of reproduction? Needing to create a new generation?

The very first thing I learned in biology is that immediate survival is the number one drive, and reproduction is the second. Did you not?

Besides the fact, again, I will repeat, nobody ever EVER needs to give birth in order to protect their immediate body from harm. That is the definition of non-elective. Aka life saving. Now I can guess you'll say "the fetus does" but that's kind of besides the point for reasons of the definitions of consent that you deny.

Projection much? Describing pregnancy as a “mere inconvenience” a denying the actual facts of giving birth is more of a pro-abortion thing.

Wow. Never in my life have I ever heard a pro-choice person describe pregnancy as an inconvenience. That's new to me and I read a lot of stuff about it.

A period is on average half a quart?

Nope. Holy shit no. The average period blood loss is 40-60 mililitres.

That's 0.2 cups. Less than 1/4 cup.

Also kind of ridiculous are you saying women should be forced to menstrate as well? Or are you trying to say it's legal to force anyone to lose any amount of blood against their will with no due process or just compensation?

Adults are sold into it as well, you know.

Absolutely yes. Most are not. Why are you making a distinction now though, when before it didn't exist?

Often times through starting freelance and “consenting” and then getting sucked down into the near inescapable criminal underworld

Citation needed, but sure and guess what, there's a shit ton of slavery in the nanny, housecleaner, and farm hand trade. In fact the most slaves are found in these trades...not in sex work. So, should it be illegal to be a nanny?

Also lots of drug addicts get sucked into crime because its criminalized, and thus they are pushed into it by society, not able to seek help when being abused or needing recovery services, just like sex workers are.

Prostitution is not like being a cashier at Kroger.

Because it's illegal, and it's so stupidly illegal that even 10 year old rape victims who are forced into prostitution are criminalized and jailed by police and judges in this world. How fucked up is that?

Do you think a poor woman should be legally required to suck a dick to get her benefits? Cuz that's what happens when sex work is work

Actually I do, if they qualify. If it's properly regulated and people have to pass drug, STD, and mental health screens, and can afford union fees, (edit: licenses too) and pimping is utterly illegal (only independent escorts can work) then yes.

Edit: Btw, I'm only responding initially to the outrageousness of the claim that people should be ashamed of that. Tbh, my idea would make it impossible to be forced, since if only independent contractors could do it, and only after severe licensing and mandatory counseling/wellness checks and union fees, then no one could be forced to do it.

See this is the problem, it seems you consider dick sucking gross or somehow inherently dehumanizing.

Sex workers should be incredibly regulated, legal, able to track their customers, ban bad apples, be unionized, drug tested, registered , licensed, tested, be able to report rapes, report abuse, johns (customers) should be able to do same (report abuse victims - or that they are victims.)

I buy something. That's what we call a commodity. A man is buying a woman's body.

Sex work, like other services, is a service not a commodity. Buying a person's body is not possible as that would be slavery. They aren't buying the body, they are buying the service of sex.

Saying selling sex is like buying a woman harkens back to the days when that is what all marriage and all sex with women was. Women were always the property of whatever man put his dick in her, unless she still lived with her father. She was either married, or a whore (or a slave), or she was the property of her father.

We don't live in those times anymore. Women are not the property of another merely because they had sex with them. Their lives aren't forfeit and their value isn't transfered to whom ever they have sex with.

It dehumanizes us as women, as mere sex objects

Your antiquated views of women as objects of whomever they have sex with is the dehumanizing view.

The reason marriage exists as it does now in the first place was that it was a way of finalizing the purchase of a woman from her family. See: All descriptions of it in the bible.

Well that's ridiculous. Nobody needs to give birth. Pregnancy labor and birth are elective. No one needs to create a child in order to live and work and be healthy another day. To me this is sort of reflective of the problem with the pro-life movement. They will describe pregnancy as a "mere inconvenience" and deny the actual facts of giving birth. Tell me what exactly is "not needed" when you don't want to bleed a half quart to a quart of blood.

there is no difference between a “sex worker” and a sex trafficking victim.

Bullshit. Adults consenting to sex are not the same as children sold into sex slavery, and how dare you.

Sex work does not make a woman's body a commodity, that's in the eye of the beholder. Nor does lots of sex degrade anyone. This is one of those things where people seem fine with lots of sex as long as its the monogamous couple (maybe even thrice divorced or even married for money!), but a little bit of sex with a few people and society is crumbling!

A thing to be used for pleasure and tossed away when done. It's men using women.

That's confused. The woman's charging the man for a service. She's getting money from the man. Also it's silly to think safe, adult sex workers can't have normal relationships outside of their jobs, or that their johns don't respect them. Sure, its a customer-business relasionship, but therefore by your logic, all service work is dehumanizing to all relationships and all expressions of higher art. So if a person is a walmart greeter, their degrading themselves and all forms of neighborly behavior.

Sex work is dehumanizing

Right, because of the taboo and the slut shaming we force women to endure. We reward men who've fucked a lot, but treat women like broken objects or "licked cupcakes" for having sex with multiple people.

Sex is one of the most beneficial things one can do for another. There is nothing disempowering about the FACT that everyone already offers it in exchange for things all over the world. And the FACT that it is something that if you want to do a lot of, even for money you should be less ashamed by far than (imho) a lot of jobs. It should be considered as respectful as a massage therapist.

d usually what women resort to either by coercion or if they feel like they have no other choice

Although this is true to some degree, in places like New Zealand where it is legal and regulated, and they live in a wealthy country, it's insulting to those women who do chose to do it of their own free will. It's also insulting to actual victims, because it perpetrates the dehumanizing myth that only broken women do sex work. Thus if you had to do it, either coerced or forced, that makes you "less than."

Most people don't want to work at McDonalds either. What's dehumanizing about fast food is as equally dehumanizing about sex work. Society doesn't respect certain professions. That has nothing to do with the professions themselves.