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    [–] According to the Resistance TV show, those red dots are First Order Fleets. And apparently, they have more than the Republic. HOW noholdingbackaccount 23 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Your breakdown shows why when people say, "Snoke doesn't need to be explained. The Emperor wasn't explained," I know they're not paying attention or are just grasping at excuses.

    This is a sequel movie. Things have to connect.

    [–] According to the Resistance TV show, those red dots are First Order Fleets. And apparently, they have more than the Republic. HOW noholdingbackaccount 13 points ago in saltierthancrait

    But then where's the surprise?

    If it's setting up the idea that there were traitors, then the members of the Resistance and even Republic citizens should be questioning in the 1st 2 movies WHY are we not getting funding for preparation of this gigantic threat that's out there.

    Everyone is acting as if these contradictory things is just normal and that's weirding the audience out.

    So to go back to my original two questions here's what it looks like IF there is a traitor storyline coming in Pt 3:

    If people have always understood this is the size of the FO, then why aren't they better prepared and why aren't people angry that the Republic didnt prepare? Why weren't people angry earlier that the Republic wasn't preparing. Everyone acts like they were fine with the Republic's actions all along.

    If they never expected the FO was this well equipped, why aren't they surprised?

    [–] The Last Jedi early premier reactions noholdingbackaccount 3 points ago in saltierthancrait

    I think it's worse. I think the ones gushing about it really did prioritize things like clever filmaking references and technique and messaging and all that over simple narrative sense.

    And I also think that the ones who showed their distaste for specific elements got ignored because they were counted as positive reviews by people looking to push that narrative.

    [–] According to the Resistance TV show, those red dots are First Order Fleets. And apparently, they have more than the Republic. HOW noholdingbackaccount 95 points ago * (lasted edited 2 hours ago) in saltierthancrait

    In TFA and TLJ, no one voices surprise at the vast resources of the FO.

    No one says, "Hey, I thought these guys were renegade remnants, how'd they build a death star 100 times bigger than the last one without us knowing until now?"

    No one asks how Snoke got the biggest yacht in the world for his golden bathrobe cruises.

    The world building is in error because it doesn't FIT with the rest. And don't say, oh that happened off camera. Because the point of World Building is to explain the world to your audience by presenting them with the circumstances/context of the action. If you withhold information, then don't act like it's their fault it feels odd to them.

    If people have always understood this is the size of the FO, then why aren't they better prepared?

    If they never expected the FO was this well equipped, why aren't they surprised?

    [–] Problem 15 of 101: Rose Tico’s rebel ring noholdingbackaccount 6 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Stuff like how nonsensical a panic button in that spot is I never thought of before, so thanks. This really is a movie where I never stop discovering things wrong with it.

    Here's something you missed, though, something big: What purpose does Rose's ring serve as a tool?

    Like, when the high command made them and handed them out to people, what was the rationale? Rose is a mechanic on a ship. What does she need a secret symbol ring for?

    And even if a secret agent of the Resistance had one, flashing a symbol might work on a kid, bu what kind of interaction with another adult would necessitate the use of such a ring?

    I'll give you all 20 seconds to think of something...

    tick tick tick...

    Nothing. The only possible use would be like something from a Roger Moore James Bond movie.

    And that's not even counting how risky it would be to carry such a device into potentially hostile places. CIA agents don't have secret US flags under the waistband of their underwear.

    The very concept of this ring as a tool is preposterous.

    [–] [META] Petition to ban showcasing of specific TLJ defender quotes from Reddit. noholdingbackaccount 1 points ago in saltierthancrait

    I don't think it's best practice for STC because we're in a bit of a scaled down situation. We know out primary antagonists are in 3-5 subs. It feels almost like a gang war at this point.

    And I'm asking for the removal of all, because generally they are all low effort in my opinion. It's usually just the quote and a demeaning headline.

    While editorialized retellings of a specific encounter can make a person very curious, I think it hardly ever applies to the ST debate because the arguments are well known. The specific quotes we see in STC are almost always from a category we've seen before, e.g. STC hates minorities or Kylo isn't really evil or Thank God TLJ gave us something fresh etc.

    So relying on a basic summary of the bad argument rather than a specific argument doesn't instill curiosity, because the reader has an idea of what kinds of things are said and their response stays abstract. On the other hand a specific quote concretizes the thought in the reader's head so it stimulates the idea that they can answer back.

    [–] [META] Petition to ban showcasing of specific TLJ defender quotes from Reddit. noholdingbackaccount 0 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Direct post quotes create a greater urge to reply.

    Yes, you can track OP's history, I pointed that out myself. But you're less likely to do so if there's no sense of being spoken to by the poster being quoted.

    And it wouldn't cripple the sub because we already have MORE posts in the sub based on indirect references to pro-TLJ arguments.

    You're also not addressing the other issue which is that these posts are low effort and generally don't stimulate deep responses.

    [–] [META] Petition to ban showcasing of specific TLJ defender quotes from Reddit. noholdingbackaccount 2 points ago in saltierthancrait

    My point is you can have that same response by saying, "I don't understand why so many poster comment that the throne room scene was magnificent and well written."

    [–] Leia slapping Poe is not female empowerment, ruins standing Leia had from the original trilogy, and was a horrible decision for her character. noholdingbackaccount 10 points ago in saltierthancrait

    I hated this SO much. It was the first moment I checked out of the movie and was like, "What was that? Who thought that was a good idea?"

    Suspension of disbelief broken.

    My relationship with the movie was never the same again.

    This is in my top five sins of TLJ.

    [–] [META] Petition to ban showcasing of specific TLJ defender quotes from Reddit. noholdingbackaccount 0 points ago in saltierthancrait

    it can lead to people "censoring" arguments from people who liked TLJ for the sake of their argument

    That already happens anyway. In many more posts than the direct quoting.

    And even with a quoted post you might not get the full context of a sentence since other posts might be clarifiying or modifying the statement.

    In any case, I think just the rule against low effort posts would justify the removal of quotes from fellow redditors.

    (Quotes of creators or critics etc are a different story)

    [–] [META] Petition to ban showcasing of specific TLJ defender quotes from Reddit. noholdingbackaccount 0 points ago * (lasted edited a day ago) in saltierthancrait

    Explain what that even means in this context.

    I'm advocating two things: strengthening the EXISTING rule to promote substantial posts and strengthening the EXISTING rule against instigating & brigading.

    Are the rules against instigating concern trolling too? You should tell the mods.

    [–] Search your feelings, you know it to be true noholdingbackaccount 2 points ago * (lasted edited a day ago) in moviescirclejerk

    which is basically

    No. Not basically. Not even a significant fraction.

    The best way to explain this that I heard is to think of Christian movies.

    Very often the message in religious propaganda movies comes at the expense of nuance and ends up simplifying conflicts and making things drag through preachyness.

    That is the same thing when someone sets out to not JUST be inclusive but to message inclusivity in a genre that needs to not drag.

    When movies find the right balance between messaging and action or abandon messaginf for just inclusion, the movies come out great, like Bad Boys which had two male minority leads and a woman vs a white man.

    Or Fury Road which had a misogynist villain and plot about sexual exploitation.

    Or all those recent dystopian YA series with female leads.

    A secondary problem is the deliberate putting down of male characters to serve the messaging.

    Poe is a good example of this. He seems to be set up as a straw man of a male action hero who doesn't listen to women.

    Another secondary problem is to make female characters underflawed to message the idea that they deserve to be there.

    NOTE: whether you agree or not with the idea that Poe was a strawman or that Rey isn't flawed enough, or even that Rey needs to be flawed, you cannot say that the argument comes from a place of not wanting women to enjoy my things or feel equal to me.

    [–] Most cringe-provoking line from the ST? noholdingbackaccount 7 points ago in saltierthancrait

    I already upvoted Rose's nonsense about saving what you love.

    And her fisting this town and now it's worth it lines are 2 and 3.

    This is my vote for worst of the rest:

    Anything that sparks. They say it two or three times.

    [–] Most cringe-provoking line from the ST? noholdingbackaccount 9 points ago * (lasted edited a day ago) in saltierthancrait

    Good point, compare that to all the times Chewbacca said something and Han reacted.

    For instance, Chewie makes a comment and Han leans up against him and says, "You said it, Chewie. Where did you dig up that old fossil?"

    By his attitude and posture, you get a fairly good idea of what Chewie's thoughts are on Kenobi. Also from Han's tone and the context of Kenobi leaving and the previous dialogue of Kenobi acting like some hero saying he must go alone. It's clear Chewbacca thinks Kenobi is full of crap.

    Han's lines are always crafted to sound natural while giving an idea of what he's replying to.

    "I don't care what you smell, get in there!"

    "I don't know, fly natural."

    "A Jedi? I'm gone for a little while and everyone's got delusions of grandeur."

    [–] What, if anything, would you say to Rian Johnson in person if you had the opportunity? noholdingbackaccount 9 points ago * (lasted edited 2 days ago) in saltierthancrait

    I think he's been very clear about his process. There are no mysteries there for me.

    e.g. he explained why he decided to have Luke cut off from the Force and disillusioned. He explained his reasoning for Rose and DJ in the movie. He talked about the reason the dreadnaught if flat on top...

    The problem is that his bad writing isn't explained by his process, but by his inability to see consequences. He doesn't have the ability to see why including hyperdrive ramming might create worldbuilding problems. He doesn't see why a casino in Star Wars doesn't fit.

    Lack of vision is all it is.

    [–] A brief look at the difference in humor between the OT and the ST. noholdingbackaccount 2 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Slapstick isn't a bad thing. It's a neutral thing and can help a story along.

    OT slapstick almost always served a purpose. The ricochet gave the audience the idea that they were trapped and provided room for Han and Leia to bounce of each other and develop character.

    Yoda smacking R2 is a setup for the reveal that he is the jedi master they're looking for.

    Chewbacca gets the crew into more trouble and it's a fun character bit too.

    The ST slapstick doesn't fit into the plot or character work organically. Like the porg screaming when the falcon zooms in. Or the Fish nuns getting their cart smashed. Or the silly aliens getting scattered on Canto Bight.

    [–] "Star Wars Toys" for Christmas noholdingbackaccount 2 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Ahh, that makes sense. I'll delete my comment.

    [–] They can track us, we can't escape!!! Meanwhile, Finn&Rose escape to Las Vegas. noholdingbackaccount 2 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Interesting notion... so like if for instance a fleet of ships were chasing another fleet of ships, but couldn't catch up to them, the first fleet could send some of their ships through hyperspace to flank their prey.

    To bad this movie didn't have such a situation where that kind of maneuvering would have been useful...

    [–] They can track us, we can't escape!!! Meanwhile, Finn&Rose escape to Las Vegas. noholdingbackaccount 1 points ago in saltierthancrait

    Nobody's' that skilled. It's like Han says in ANH, it's going to take time to feed the coordinates into th e navi computer.

    I mean, I'm sure the path from Tatooine to Alderaan was not mysterious, and he still had to take time. And Han's better at flying than Chewbacca.

    [–] They can track us, we can't escape!!! Meanwhile, Finn&Rose escape to Las Vegas. noholdingbackaccount 15 points ago in saltierthancrait

    No, no, you guys didn't read the novelization.

    Rose was part of a team that developed experimental stealth tech while serving under Holdo. That's why Holdo knew she could put cloaking on small ships and the FO would not expect it. By massive coincidence Rose transferred over to the Raddus with Holdo.

    This is not even a joke. That's canon.

    Now, of course, that raises some other questions that the novelization doesn't address.

    If Rose is such a hotshot tech, why is she assigned to guard escape pods? Surely in a combat situation a tech of her caliber would be on the damage control team?

    Why is no one asking for Rose when they have to install the cloaking tech? That's her job right? She would be on that crew considering how big the job is. Did no officer send someone to reassign her to install the cloaks on the 30 transports? And If the person you assigned to guard the escape pods can't be found, you'd get worried, right?

    Why doesn't Holdo know who Rose is? Rose was a crewmember on HER ship and worked on a big project that Holdo was aware of.

    [–] TLJ themes are retreads, so it lies about the older movies noholdingbackaccount 12 points ago * (lasted edited 3 days ago) in saltierthancrait

    Previous movies were vastly superior in showing the "laser sword" doesn't walk in and save everyone by itself, and in showing Luke moving beyond the old Jedi ways.

    Good point.

    The movie is too busy trying to meta-talk to the audience about what the fanboys supposedly expected that it fails to address the series continuity or the character in the actual dialogue, Rey.

    As you mentioned, it ignores the ending of RotJ and the fact that any legend that spread about Luke would not have been about him fighting whole armies etc. The most combat-oriented thing the galaxy would know he was part of is public brawl that left some famous gangsters dead in the desert and he wasn't even the one that killed Jabba or Boba Fett.

    What legend is it that Luke is referencing about the laser sword and also when he says he began to believe in his own legend?

    Even Rey knows the truth! She points out that he redeemed Darth Vader, so she knows he didn't go around whacking armies.

    What's more, Luke is't even talking to Rey, character-to-character when he vomits out his laser sword line because she never said he had to do anything like that.

    Before the laser sword comment she said...

    -Leia sent me and she's asking for your help.

    -The galaxy might need a legend, but I want a teacher.

    -pointing out that Luke's greatest victory was not via sword.

    That laser sword line is just addressing phantoms in his head. It's Don Quixote tilting at windmills and calling them dragons. Except in this case, the windmills are also imaginary.

    [–] Does anybody feel like the Resistance are really up their own arses? noholdingbackaccount 30 points ago in saltierthancrait

    It's not even a decoder ring as far as I can tell. It doesn't decode.

    It's just a ring that gives away the fact that the person who wears it is a secret agent.

    How can you go from Cassian Andor in the back alleys to this? You think spies/agents/soldiers/mechanics actually have a use for this?

    Seriosly, leave out the purpose of impressing children, what possible use could such a ring have for Rose? Give me one hypothetical where she interacts with an adult where she would use such a ring?

    Especially when such a ring tells the wrong people that you're their enemy if you get detained?